“Trust is built with consistency.” Teach Different With Lincoln Chafee

Transcript

Dan Fouts (00:10)

Welcome everybody to the Teach Different podcast. We’re super excited today to bring in a quote from a former governor and US senator from Rhode Island, Lincoln Chafee, who has a very interesting, simple, provocative quote on trust. So as we’re thinking about where we could put this quote, which I haven’t shared yet, but will soon, definitely would fit into a classroom. The idea of trust, that theme of trust and then also any kind of conversation you might do in the community or with friends or within families, this would be a really good one to do. And I’ll get to the quote in a minute. But for those who aren’t really as familiar with the method, we’re gonna walk through this quote and look at what it means, interpret it. Put it in our own words is what I tell my own students and what a lot of people say. That way you internalize its meaning for yourself. And then we wanna push against it. What’s a counterclaim to it? What’s another way to look at the world so that we don’t get this kind of brain fixation on one meaning of something? We can see a different meaning. And in that way, we reveal a different perspective and we can be more open-minded about it. And then we’ll ask questions throughout and we’ll see what comes of this. Lincoln Chafee, here we go. I’m gonna say it twice and then Steve is gonna weigh in. We don’t have a guest today. It’s just gonna be Steve and me, rapid fire. This will be one of our podcast shorts that we’ll do. Here we go. Trust is built with consistency. Trust is built with consistency. Simple and profound. What do you think Steve?

Steve Fouts (02:13)

Once another person acts a certain way over time and is consistent, you can trust them. You can’t trust people until you know how they’re gonna act over time. That’s what the claim is, I think. And that is a definition of trust. Longevity of the same types of behaviors or beliefs is what builds trust. So I just think of a situation like somebody picks me up at 8 a.m. to take me to work every week on Monday. Once they do that for a couple months in a row and they’re always on time, I start trusting them. I almost start taking them for granted in a way. And we could get into that as maybe what ends up happening when you trust people over time through this consistency. But I’m just giving one example of what would build trust. This is saying it’s consistency over time. Same behavior is the only way to know if you can trust someone.

Dan Fouts (03:37)

I think of words and actions. When people say things, they may say things and you are to trust them. But I think it’s harder to trust people simply through their words than it is to trust them if, as you said, there are consistent actions that back up what they’re doing. Because when they do something, you see them acting. That’s a way of communicating that is different than just saying things. So I agree if someone communicates consistently to you and you know that you can go and that someone will be there and kind of a confidant of you, not just say things, but actually be present with you when you need them. That’s another thing over time that would build trust. Or you see how people react to other people over time. And the more data you get, the more you’re willing to trust that they will continue to do it moving forward.

Steve Fouts (04:47)

It’s almost like you have to prove yourself. But but I like the words as well. Because if you get somebody saying something and then doing the opposite, that’s a sign that you can’t trust them. You can’t listen to what they’re saying and trust them. You can’t trust their words. And that’s another way to define trust. The actions are kind of what ends up, I think, really proving it out, in my opinion. Which makes me actually think this consistency is something that kind of goes both ways. There are people that are consistently trustworthy because they’ll follow through on what their promises are. There’s also people that are consistently not trustworthy, you kind of end up treating them in a way where you know that you can’t rely on them, but because they’re consistently unreliable or they consistently lie, let’s say, you almost trust your ability to predict their actions. You don’t trust them, but you know them. because of that consistency. I don’t know if I’m making sense. It doesn’t have to.

Dan Fouts (06:19)

Right, but I think trust, the assumption I believe would be that there’s a positive thought to trust. But I know what you mean. Some people who are consistently one way that bothers you when they continue to be like that and they’re confident with that and it still bothers you and they never change over time, there is a certain peace and contentment you get from that because they never change their behavior as opposed to some people who are really, really nice in certain contexts and then will be very mean, passive aggressive or whatever. Those are the ones that are very difficult to predict and harder to get along with. So I think I’m getting what you’re saying.

Steve Fouts (07:11)

Yeah, I’m trying to, I took out the positive connotation of trust and it was more about consistency, I guess. But maybe that wasn’t fair. I mean, I do agree that I think he’s trying to say it’s over time. That’s when you know, you can trust someone, but I’m thinking of a counterclaim here and I’m going to offer a counterclaim that there are people in life that may not consistently be there for you at all times, they may be just erratic with communication. They kind of fall off the earth for a few months, but then they come back and they say hi like nothing was weird about that. But then if you have something bad happen to yourself or you need someone, they’re there. Like they’ll show up when you need them the most, but they’re not really consistent with it, if that makes sense. And I’m thinking of a definition of what real trust is in people. I think some people, yeah, what, there you go. What does it mean for people? Cause I think some people are good with just having somebody always have their back.

Dan Fouts (08:22)

There’s your essential question right there. What is trust?

Steve Fouts (08:34)

They could be the most, the biggest liar, inconsistent person, totally unreliable, but they kind of know that when it comes down to it, they’re gonna be there. That’s the only trust that some people need. Other people need much more, I think, you know, and more consistency.

Dan Fouts (08:52)

Yeah, there are people who, they’re not there consistently, but they will be there in the hardest possible times that you’re going through. That trust is also built even when it’s inconsistent, in the sense that during those really, really hard times, you do have someone you can count on, but you wouldn’t count on them all of the time. So I’m just giving you exactly what you’re saying. I agree. It’s not always built with consistency.

Steve Fouts (09:29)

Right. I’m thinking of politicians too, how we trust politicians for different reasons, you know, and sometimes that’s an explanation as to why we see them so much differently, you know, and we might support one over another. Some people want their leaders to be, you know, transparent and always saying the right things, telling the truth, being upfront and being very consistent in that way. And then others might go for a politician or a leader that they just kind of believe in their character and the consistency of their language and whether they’re always transparent and telling the truth or being a really good person, they don’t think of that as much as a way to judge whether they’re trustworthy. They’re latching onto something else about them.

Dan Fouts (10:29)

Yeah, we’re thinking very similar about this because there are certain people, putting the politicians aside, there are certain people you meet where you develop an instant source of trust for them, even though you have not spent a lot of time with them. There’s something about their personality, the openness, the vulnerability, whatever, there’s an instant trust.

Steve Fouts (10:49)

Yeah.

Dan Fouts (10:58)

And this is actually something as a teacher that I don’t really think of this, I’m thinking about it right now, but at the beginning of a school year, what you have to do is establish a sense of trust that’s actually not built on consistency because you haven’t been around them much. You have to be open, transparent and honest and hope that you actually build trust quickly without a lot of time. And that’s a challenge. But I think some people are better at doing that than others.

Steve Fouts (11:37)

That is very true. Some people are almost immediately trustworthy. And I’ve got a quick example. I just went to a documentary screening in Springfield here, put on by the Mama Jo Project, which is just a wonderful family organization basically that had this wonderful grandmother who was so supportive of the community and did all these great things in her life, and she ended up getting dementia. And the documentary was the story about how the family kind of rallied together and helped her through that. And one of her daughters, the primary caregiver in the documentary, just hearing her talk, about her mom and what she was doing as a caregiver and how she was advocating for her in the hospital, and then she was actually at the screening in person as well on the panel. This person, I can’t even remember her name, but she was the most trustworthy person, and I don’t know her. I just saw her in a documentary and then I heard her in person for maybe 30 minutes. And she’s just an angel. And it’s just natural. The trust you have for certain people, it’s the way they talk. It was partly knowing her actions and what she was doing for someone, how that also does it.

Dan Fouts (13:10)

So maybe the counterclaim then would be trust is built through intuition. Sometimes trust is not just consistency of action. Sometimes trust is built through immediate recognition and intuition. And hey, look, sometimes it doesn’t work out as well. Sometimes your judgments are wrong. Other times your judgments are right.

Steve Fouts (13:18)

Yeah, like instincts. Yeah. Yeah. And I, yeah.

Dan Fouts (13:40)

You could argue that trust is built on more than just consistency. So maybe the counterclaim here is, there’s something additional to consistency that builds trust. Not that trust isn’t built on consistency, it’s what would you say, it’s sufficient but not necessary for trust.

Steve Fouts (13:44)

Yeah, or maybe necessary and not sufficient. It needs to be there. but you don’t know you’re suggesting it doesn’t. 

Dan Fouts (14:09)

No, I’m saying sufficient, but not necessary. Well, questions. I mean, I think what is the best way to build trust?

Steve Fouts (14:25)

Yeah. You know that thing about your love language? I don’t know who came up with that, but just how different people are moved by different types of actions that show love. I feel like it’s the same thing with trust. What’s your trust language? What do you look at in someone that makes you just really trust them? And I gotta say this really quick about the instinct

idea. I think people do, they act out of instincts. And what’s dangerous about that, although I think it can be a good way to discern situations and really find people in your life that can help you, can be a beacon for you because you really choose the right person to trust, there’s a risk in that because there are people out there that actually know a little bit about human psychology. and they can do things and say things in a way that makes you think that it’s just your instincts that are believing in them or something. But really they’re kind of manufacturing it and they’re, I don’t want to say mind control, but they’re kind of pushing the right buttons to get you to believe something. And I’m thinking of like fraudsters and con man and there, you just got to be careful.

Dan Fouts (15:53)

Sure, it can be manipulative. You can be manipulated, so you have to be careful. But to push back against that, you can’t live your life not trusting other people, I don’t think. But that’s another conversation we could have. So you are gonna get burned, but if you live openly and try to trust others, I believe you’re gonna end up living a happier life.

Steve Fouts (15:56)

Yeah. Yeah. No, I know, I know.

Dan Fouts (16:22)

If you lean on the side of trust, even if it’s through intuition or otherwise. Yeah, of course. Of course. Okay, Lincoln Chafee, or Chafee, excuse me, gotta pronounce that right. Trust is built with consistency. A very interesting quote that connects on a personal so many ways. Kids, adults can all connect with this quote. And this would be a good one for the personal experience storytelling aspect of the method. If students and adults are willing to share some of their personal experiences and when trust has worked out and when it hasn’t worked out, this would be a good way to bring a group together to talk about something really important.

Steve Fouts (17:07)

Yeah.

Dan Fouts (17:14)

Well, thanks everybody and hope you enjoy this episode and come back for more. Take care.