“Even a sheep must learn to lead the flock someday.” – Teach Different with Unknown Author

Transcript

Dan Fouts (00:08)

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Teach Different podcast. We’re back in action with a very interesting quote today. The author is going to be anonymous. We don’t exactly know who the author is. It’s one of those quotes that when you dig into it, you’re not able to find anyone that it can be clearly attributed to. But it’s on, I don’t know, I think leadership is going to be a good theme on this one that we’re going to get to in a minute. It’s got a great metaphor to it. Our guest today, again, coming back for more, is Jarvis Funches. And we’re so happy to have him back. This is gosh, is this the fourth or fifth podcast?

 

Steve Fouts (00:49)

Fifth. 

 

Dan Fouts (00:51)

The fifth. And, uh, Jarvis has a rich history with Teach Different and is one of the inspirations behind this organization to begin with. So, um, we’re just excited and, and, and so glad to have him back, uh, doing the method that is changing people’s lives in amazingly cool ways. We’ll do this quote and then we’re going to do our claim and our counterclaim, uh, bantered around back and forth, ask some questions, engage in deep thinking, connect to personal experiences. So many different ways these conversations can go, but ultimately they end up hopefully making us think deeper about life, about ourselves. And about connecting with each other. And that’s why we’re here. It has mental health and academic benefits, this kind of communication, and it can really bridge the divides in our world. Here we go. I’ll read it twice, and then, uh, Jarvis, you can always have the first crack at it and just come on in and see what you think. Even the sheep must learn to lead the flock someday. Even a sheep must learn to lead the flock someday. Jarvis, what do you think? What’s on your mind? 

 

Jarvis Funches (02:14)

I feel like this quote, it means to me, uh, um, very much that you should sit back and you should learn from your leaders, and not only your leaders, your peers too, because you never know when your shot is going to be up. And not only just, in various ways, um, not in terms of your own life, but in terms of working, in terms of sports, and in terms of many other fields, like, this topic could very much go many ways, but just off of my, off of my mind. Uh, excuse me, let me correct my words. Off of my thinking, I believed that this would be that I should sit back and I should really let someone be a mentor to me so I could learn how to operate and so I could be able to operate under the best abilities. So that’s how, that’s what I kind of took from it. I don’t really have too much to argue about because it’s kind of like. Um, you know, but that’s what I kind of came up with. 

 

Steve Fouts (03:10)

The good quotes don’t feel like they have any counterclaim, right? Any argument when you, when you hear it, you just say, there’s some truth, right? And then you dig a little bit and then it’s like uncovering a treasure that there’s, there’s way more behind this somewhere. And there’s also another way to look at the world, et cetera. I, you said that you, you mentioned mentor Jarvis, this idea that you can get a mentor, you can find a mentor who can then build you up to be a leader. Because I guess, are you saying that you might need to be a leader at some point? And look, you’re a sheep, I’m a sheep. We’re all sheep. We’re all, we’re all like, not the president of the United states. 

 

Jarvis Funches (04:01)

let me put this in a term so I can explain it better. Okay. I got LeBron James, right? Okay. And I’m a rookie, right? I want to be around LeBron James as much as I need to be because guess what? It’s so much to soak up and there’s so much to learn from him because he’s such a great player and he’s such a great at, you know, at this task. So why wouldn’t I sit back and just let him mentor me and just soak all that in instead of not doing it? You know, like he’s a hall of famer who wouldn’t want that type of wisdom, you know? And I feel like if you do get that wisdom, you, you, you’ll be better off. I mean, 10 times better off, you know, You need to, you need to learn from other people, just like we always say, you can learn from others mistakes. You also can learn from other people’s corrections in life. You can learn from that. And you just gotta be willing to sit back and let people mentor you, and you know, just pour into your cup. And you gotta be willing to listen and understand, you know? And that’s why I feel like you should really sit back and let somebody mentor you, because you never know. Like, like I said, you never know what LeBron might have to sit down. And all the things that he taught you, it’s time for No, and now you could put that to work and now he can see that what he taught you is paid off and you get to get the blessings from those too because man, look, all I did was listen and look, he told me it was going to play out for me and it played out for me, you know, 

 

Steve Fouts (05:18)

I love that. That’s you took the mentoring angle and the education angle with it like. Be open to someone else’s guidance to a role model. Uh, Dan, did you take that? Oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead, Jarvis. 

 

Jarvis Funches (05:32)

No, no, I was just saying, yeah, that’s correct. 

 

Steve Fouts (05:35)

Is that good? I didn’t even see the mentoring education part of it. I’m already open. Yeah. 

 

Dan Fouts (05:41)

Yeah. That’s an interesting angle. Even a sheep must learn to lead the flock someday. The way I kind of looked at this is, well, a sheep is a follower, right? I’m kind of getting the metaphor here and a flock. So you have a sheep herding system where you got the leader, the shepherd, and then the sheep are the followers. And this is saying a sheep, which I guess is a follower, you know, should learn how to lead the flock someday. So if you’re a follower, you should always be trying to think about becoming that leader and not only being a follower to others. Maybe be that mentor, Jarvis, just to, if you’re being mentored, you should want to be a mentor to, to others and, and that’s important to, to keep that in mind, to always have that as an option in your future.

 

Jarvis Funches (06:39)

That’s true. That’s absolutely true. And just like you said with the shepherd and how we are being sheep and how we’re following, I mean. Like you said, when we get that opportunity, we need to learn how to run a farm, run a flock, how to shepherd, but if I’m not paying attention to the shepherd, I would never understand how he has authority and control over the sheep. Like I’m trying to have, you know what I’m saying? That’s what I mean by the mentor. He’s my mentor. When I pay attention to him and how he runs things and how he’s obligated, how he’s maneuvering through things. Okay. I see how he’s doing it. I need to do it that way because if I try my own way, maybe it’ll fail or maybe it’ll take me a longer time to get to where he is. But if I just sit back and just peep, okay, this is what the shepherd is doing. Okay. This is how the shepherd’s feeding us. This is how the shepherd got us going left and right. You know what I’m saying? And then what? It’s your turn. You wouldn’t have such a hassle to do it or to be a leader. You know what I mean? And that’s what you have to be willing to understand because a lot of people are ignorant and where they let their ignorance block them away from, you know, just taking in that, that, that, that man, that wisdom, you know? 

 

Steve Fouts (07:48)

Yeah. Yeah. They want to be led their whole life. I don’t know if that’s kind of what you mean by ignorance, jarvis. What do you mean by that? 

 

Jarvis Funches (07:58)

What I mean by ignorance is that I feel that I know it already. Okay. You, you, you, you guys are my shepherd. You guys have way more wisdom than me, but when you come to pour that wisdom into my cup, I’m acting as if I already know, but I don’t act and I’m not moving like I already know. You see what I’m saying? So this is, I’m going to tell me like, you know, Jarvis, you picking up that pen and poking a hole in the wall is wrong, but I’m acting like I know. I know that’s wrong. Yeah, I already know. I already know. But why are you doing that? If you know, That’s the ignorance part that I’m trying to say. So you have to just sit back and be open to your mentor. That’s And don’t be ignorant to, to knock away their wisdom, like be open to it. You know, everybody doesn’t operate the same way. And maybe sometimes your wisdom may sound a little off to me, but if I just sit back and just listen, you know, and pick the good from the bad out of it, then maybe I’ll be alright. You know? So –

 

Steve Fouts (08:55)

I’m loving that. I got this picture now, Jarvis of this big sheep grazing on a hill or a bunch of them. Right. And You know, they could sit there and just eat all day, you know, get fat, and then they got to get fleeced every month or so. That’s probably uncomfortable, but you really don’t have to do too much, right? The dogs are taking care of you. They’re making sure there’s no wolves. You could have a life of ignorant bliss, where you’re not, you’re not really caring or wanting more. Or, like you’re saying, I think. You could watch the shepherd. You could check, like you said, peep the system, see what the dogs are doing to make sure that the sheep are herded. See what that shepherd is doing when he comes out with his scissors and he’s fleecing everything and he’s going to the market to sell this stuff. What, what, what’s going on here? Because if the shepherd doesn’t isn’t there someday, someone’s going to need to step up. And if, and am I kind of catching you here?

 

Jarvis Funches (10:09)

Who’s going to be that guy to step up? It’s typically going to be the dogs or another shepherd, but who’s to know that they won’t call on you. Of this quote is basically you have to be open to be, you have to be open to wisdom. Okay, let me get straight to the point. You got to be open to learning and open to wisdom because you never know when is your chance to be up to lead and you don’t want to be picked or be chosen to lead and don’t know how to lead. So just like my grandfather, he’s the head of the household. So he’ll be our shepherd. Right. Okay, cool. But I’m the, I’m the oldest son of the family. So when he, when Papa leaves, I will be the shepherd. If I’m not watching Papa and seeing how Papa is operating and sharing his love with the family and being a man and taking care of things, then I won’t know how to be a man and love. I like pop out there. So that will cause my family and my flock to break apart because I don’t know how to maintain my flock right? I wasn’t paying attention when it was when it wasn’t my turn to maintain the flock. That’s what I’m basically trying to 

 

Steve Fouts (11:14)

I love that.

 

Jarvis Funches (11:15)

Is that you have to pay attention Because you never know when it when you’re be called like like this it could go in so many terms but I just put it in that family time because the listeners or you know, people that’s watching to understand more, you know, like just pay attention to those role models in your family because you know, like when they’re gone, you know, you never know. It might be your, but it wouldn’t be your chance. You don’t want to step up and not know what to do. 

 

Steve Fouts (11:40)

That’s, that’s, I mean, Dan, what do you think of that? Like, I get it now. I know where he’s coming from. 

 

Dan Fouts (11:46)

Yeah. Yeah. I’m, I’m ready to fly into the counterclaim actually. 

 

Steve Fouts (11:51)

Well, just, uh, 

 

Dan Fouts (11:53)

Can I fly into the counterclaim?

 

Steve Fouts (11:55)

Yeah. Why don’t you, because you’ve been peeping, you’ve been observing. So now you can come up with a counterclaim. 

 

Dan Fouts (12:01)

Yeah, even a sheep must learn to lead the flock someday. But what if the sheep doesn’t have the attributes? To be a leader. So I think what this assumes, this is where I’m going with this. It assumes that the sheep could lead the flock someday by watching people, everything that you were saying, Jarvis and Steve in a perfect world that might work, but what if the sheep does not have the qualities of a leader and they push themselves into a position of being a leader, but it’s not in the right role.

That might happen, right? 

 

Jarvis Funches (12:53)

Yeah, that might happen, and it has happened before. That’s why you have great emperors, and you have the bad emperors. You know, people that don’t have the attributes to be rulers, like you say, and become rulers, and it becomes a tragic show. And that counterclaim is that, man, like, you know what, I really don’t even have anything to say, because that’s tough. Like, if you don’t have the attributes, You’re not the guy, you know, 

 

Steve Fouts (13:24)

and you can study as much as you want. Like even a sheet must learn to leave the book. Because Michael said, you can wear my shoes, but you can never fill them, 

 

Jarvis Funches (13:38)

never fill them. You see what I’m saying? So I go back to what I said. You could, you could be chosen, but you just don’t have the attributes. And when that comes along, then that’s a tragedy, unless you got a supporting team around you. But in this case, we are just speaking about a particular person. So that’s a tragic situation because you don’t have the attributes. You don’t, you don’t have what it takes to be a leader. You, you know what it takes to be a leader, but you just don’t have it to be a leader. So in that case, yeah. 

 

Steve Fouts (14:07)

That’s a counterclaim. 

 

Jarvis Funches (14:11) 

But in life, like they say, it’s levels to life and it’s, and life is made to be the way it is. It’s made for rich people to be rich. It’s made for middle class people to be middle class. It’s made for poor people to be poor because if everybody was rich, like Dan was saying, if everybody was rich, then like, well, like you were saying, Mr. Fouts, then we all be just sitting on the hill eating grass, getting fat, getting shaved, you know, but who would have control then in the world? Yeah, who would have a say? So that’s like, so I really can’t even go against that. That’s like one of the toughest counterclaims I ever ran into since I’ve been doing Teach Different. Like that’s a mind blower because you ever 

 

Steve Fouts (14:59) 

sorry to interrupt. But have you ever had someone that was, let’s just say leading you or over you think about, you know, when you, you know, when you were a kid or whatever, you, you got into like. different peer groups and, and you got into situations where there was kind of some type of leader. Do you ever remember one where you looked at him and you’re like, this is not someone I respect and I want to follow. 

 

Jarvis Funches (15:30)

Yeah, actually, growing up, you know, and as I said back many podcasts before, you know, I had troubles and difficulties, you know, in life. So long story short, you know, being outside, you know, one guy here at a higher rank than me, you know, and this guy was just a buffoon. Like, like this guy is just not the guy. Like, like, come on, man. Like, is you serious? And it got to the point where like, like I always said, like I said before, it became a tragedy show because. You put this guy in a position to be a leader, but this guy don’t have the attributes. Yeah, he sat back and watched you all day. Yeah, he did. But he still doesn’t have the qualities and the qualifications to be a leader. What was he missing? What was he missing? Man, this guy was missing leadership, uh, communication, uh, late. Come on, man. Like a buffoon. Get everything out of order. Come on, man. Like, this is not how people lead, man. Come on. Like, this is not how people lead. And you expect me to follow this guy? Come on, man. Stop it. Knock it off. And that’s where it becomes attractive because now I’m rebelling against even following you. I don’t even want to follow you. Like, Stop it. You don’t even have the qualifications. Like, come on, man. They stop it. This is like going in the doctor’s office and letting a dude do surgery on you that never even got a diploma or a bachelor’s degree for going to a nursery school. You not even let this man touch you, man. Stop it, please. Like, come on. Next. Like, like, that’s, that’s, come on, man. Like, all right, man. Don’t even get me started, Mr. Fouts. Man. 

 

Steve Fouts (17:04)

Look, I already jumped in with the essential question you could even argue. What’s great leadership? Cause that’s what’s becoming interesting right now, listening to you. Cause it seems so clear when I asked you, have you ever had someone above you that just, you know, shouldn’t have been a leader and you’re like, oh yeah. And it was as clear as the clear as day. 

 

Jarvis Funches (17:26)

The greatest me ever that I’ve ever been around in life. Always treated themselves equal. And what I mean by equal is that they never, even though they knew that they had the power, the qualifications and they knew that they were in charge, they always acted equally. They always acted humble, humble, humble leaders are the greatest because people will follow you because you humble. You don’t make yourself seem too high to reach and you don’t make yourself too low to be around. You see what I’m saying? You are humble. You, you, you’re very welcoming when people come around, you’re very communicating, you want time for things, you’re, you’re, man, like, like you got everything in order. Like those type of leaders are very disciplined, but they’re humble. Like, like, and you, you, I, I’m pretty sure you met guys like that, like that’s top ranking, but come around and just act like they just. Like it’s nothing nonchalant to the fact that you pulled up in a Ferrari outside. He, he happy to see you and your brand new Honda Accord more than he, you know, those are the leaders that you want to be around because they’re happy. They’re more happy to see their team winning than them winning. See when my team winning, then I’m winning. That’s what makes me a great leader, making my team win. That’s what makes me win. But if I’m winning and then my team losing, they’re like, Dan said, he’s not the guy. He got to go. Come on, man. That’s just like basketball, man. If he ain’t the point guard to run our team, he got to go. Don’t worry about it. We’ll do a couple of trades and a couple of flips. But we’ll get the guy here. And that’s where you come in at, man. But you got to be humble, disciplined, and fierce. But be humble, though. You have to be humble, like man, that’s want, yeah, 

 

Steve Fouts (19:14)

there there’s a balance. Jarvis, there’s a balance. I’ve always been fascinated with, you know, because I got a lot of my teaching in the same neighborhoods that you grew up in. For sure. You got the authentic experience ’cause you lived and you grew up there and I just kind of came in after I got my degrees. And you know what I’m saying? Like, I, that whole, I don’t know what, how to put it. It’s, it’s that humility, the thing that impressed me the most about the young people that had the most juice, I guess, or respect was the one, was this, this humility that they had. But they did have a fierceness to them. And when I say fierce, I’m going to say they, they could check people, people respected them and they kind of intimidated them sometimes where they were intimidated by them sometimes. So that always was interesting to me. Like how. How is it that you can be humble, people don’t view it as a weakness, they are respecting you on a high level, but you’re humble. You know what I’m saying? Like, how does that happen? 

 

Jarvis Funches (20:35)

Sure. Never, never, never, ever, ever take my kindness for weakness. That’s always assertive where I’m from. Just because I’m nice, just because I will give you the shirt off my back, doesn’t mean I will not. Let’s keep it family wise. Okay. And, when you set those boundaries with people, like I could come around you and play all day, man, but I can tell you in your face, seriously, if we take it there, then there will be consequences for sure. But I’m the most down to earth guy. We can have fun all day. And once you understand that, and once we have an understanding, then that’s when those fears come in that like, like, you know what I’m saying? That’s what I mean by being a humble and a fierce leader. Yes, you can be humble. Yes, you can kick it with your other people. Yes, you can kick it with people that’s lower than you till you know what I’m saying, but they also have to understand that I am, I am him. Yeah, yeah, I am him, but, but, but we could kick it, but I’m him at the same time. And that’s what stopped people from playing with you. You know what I’m saying? And, and sad to say that’s just how the world has to be. It has to be like that or else you will be either a doormat or people will forever say that you’re mean because you don’t let people run over you. But you know, stand on what I believe in firmly. I’m not going to let you disrespect me. I’m not going to let you play with me like I wouldn’t play with you. So let’s just keep it cordial. That’s just how it is. You know, it’s 

 

Steve Fouts (22:01)

Dan, what do you think of that? Like how, how, what do you think? 

 

Dan Fouts (22:06)

What, what specifically 

 

Steve Fouts (22:07)

the traits, I guess, you know, how you started in and said, What if the sheep doesn’t have the attributes to be a leader? And you know, they shouldn’t be worried about trying to lead a flock and shouldn’t even spend their time doing it. They need to work on being a follower. You know what I’m saying? Some people need to get better at that. Yeah. 

 

Dan Fouts (22:28)

Right. I would just. To the quote, even a sheep must learn to lead the flock someday. Whoever wrote this is making a grand assumption that any follower should be a leader. And I think that the, I think that the, the, the counterclaim, the better wisdom is to understand who you are. and find the place in a system for which you’re best suited. That 

 

Steve Fouts (23:00)

find your role 

 

Dan Fouts (23:02)

is really important. 

 

Jarvis Funches (23:04)

Yeah. So many words you, you, you saying, Hey, I understand your role, play your role, play your role 

 

Dan Fouts (23:11) 

and be okay with it. Be the best follower you can be knowing you don’t have those attributes,  you were talking about Jarvis and Steve, you were talking about being okay with being on the team, but not having to be in charge. I mean, that’s equally important. 

 

Jarvis Funches (23:30)

Be okay. Being a role player, be okay with being a teammate. Everybody’s not a fit for leadership. And we see that every day. And I mean, like, and what, man, like it’s in a podcast or to the listeners and to people that’s listening in, we’re not telling you that. You’re not built to be a leader, but what we’re trying to get people to understand is that understand who you is and understand your capabilities and don’t put too much on you that you can’t bear because you can’t put yourself in tragic situations. To where the situation is uncomfortable for you, and you’re not benefiting from it. You know, and it’s role, and it’s shocking to say that Dan, you’re very much right. You know, certain people are meant to be followers. That’s just the way life is. 

 

Steve Fouts (24:16)

And I’m gonna, I’ll go ahead and rescue the claim for all of us. Having said all that. Which I am kind of thinking counterclaim right now, but I’m going to flip back and say, that’s not to say that whomever, whoever you are to not pursue knowledge and wisdom and learning, because you do never know yourself. And there might be a leader in you that you may not see at the moment when you’re, you know, 16 or even when like you’re 25 and you’re used to just having bosses around, right? Don’t give up on you being someone who can step out there, take a chance and lead your own flock someday. Don’t ever settle for that. It’s just that we’re saying, I think in the counterclaim is. Don’t feel pressured and don’t feel like you’ve got to get up and go lead and do a role that you’re not suited with as well. So maybe I’m getting an essential question going here. Like, how do you know? Yeah, go ahead.

 

Dan Fouts (25:23)

In the self knowledge. The important thing is the self knowledge to know who you are and where you’re you fit. And I agree, Steve. I think it depends on the stage of your life. Leave yourself open to learning from mentors and maybe you can go into that position. I agree. Back to the claim. That makes sense. 

 

Steve Fouts (25:47)

Jarvis, what were you going to say? 

 

Jarvis Funches (25:50)

Just like you and Dan are saying, it’s absolutely right. Never stop pursuing the knowledge. So my question to people. When do you know that you have enough knowledge to lead? That’ll be my question to all my listeners. 

 

Steve Fouts (26:05)

There you go. 

 

Dan Fouts (26:07)

That’s great, Jar. Oh my gosh. I love that. 

 

Jarvis Funches (26:10)

Because in a way, because what we’re saying here is that we’re not telling you that you’re not a leader. For sure we’re not saying that, but there’s a time and a place for everything. So if you’re not a leader now, it doesn’t mean you can’t be a leader in the future, but on your way to being a leader, pick up the most knowledge that you can. So when it is your time, or if it is your time, you can be the best leader that you can be, but the question is, when do you know, you know, personally, when you have enough knowledge to be suitable to take on that leadership role.

 

Dan Fouts (26:49)

And a lot of times, not that we don’t, we don’t have to answer the essential questions, but I got to go a little bit here. You don’t know, and you have to put yourself in that position to reveal it. 

 

Jarvis Funches (27:03)

Yeah. Experience. 

 

Steve Fouts (27:05)

Be a buffoon. 

 

Jarvis Funches (27:07) 

Hey, you gotta be a buffoon sometimes. Hey, I can truly say though, some of the greatest leaders come from being one of the greatest followers. I can truly say that. 

 

Steve Fouts (27:19)

I’m with you. 

 

Jarvis Funches (27:20)

I can truly say that though. So like they always say, and like, like some and most of the greatest leaders ever say, Hey, failure is your failure is your best friend. Never be scared to fail because when you fail, you learn from your failure. And guess what? You try again. And you got a little bit more knowledge that you didn’t have before, you know? 

 

Dan Fouts (27:42)

I got another quote that I think we have in our library that was attributed to Abraham Lincoln. I’ve since learned that Lincoln did not say it, and I can’t remember who did, but it’s this. If you really want to test a person’s character, give him power.

 

Jarvis Funches (27:59)

Wow. 

 

Dan Fouts (28:03)

Until someone has the power, you don’t know what character traits are going to be revealed. 

 

Jarvis Funches (28:11) 

Do you know that I love that quote? So man – 

 

Steve Fouts (28:16)

Have we done that yet? Have we done a podcast on that yet? 

 

Dan Fouts (28:20)

I don’t know.

 

Jarvis Funches (28:21)

But that is, man. Like that is so mind blowing. Like for real, like just give the person a power and you will truly see who this person is. Like I know everybody goes through this on an everyday basis or with just certain things, certain people, certain companies, certain places that you’re trying to get into that they have authority that they not, you know, like, man, it’d be crazy. It’s crazy. It’s mad crazy because this person could have a certain amount of authority and they could be a total butthead and God can change the tables. To where this person has no authority at all and you have the authority or somebody else has authority and this person becomes a total sweetheart. Like you never saw this part of this person before yeah, cuz God has destroyed the ego. Yeah, now you have to live with the reality version of yourself And that’s why I’m so mind blowing to me like wow like if a lot of people destroyed their ego. Could you really even live with yourself that I like know like the reality version the real version of you not this buffoon version you got in your brain like oh my god 

 

Steve Fouts (29:32)

That’s gonna be a struggle for a lot And yeah, revealing who you are when you get the power it it’s a quick one You know, you just know you’re gonna find out quick 

 

Jarvis Funches (29:45)

people do change people do 

 

Steve Fouts (29:48)

Well, I held off on the Plato stuff, but I gotta say at least 10 seconds here I want to not leave this symbolism of sheep. Dogs, shepherds, shepherding, and all this stuff. I want to get some quotes later where we go more in depth into that. And Jarvis, I’ll just share this. Dan already knows Plato, this philosopher, Plato. He uses shepherding as a way to talk about leaders. and followers and how his belief is that there actually is natural leadership ability found in nature that is only in certain people, whereas other people are better off, you know, playing different roles, being followers, et cetera. And he compares it to some people are sheep. Some people are dogs, a little bit more authority with a dog, right? And then some people are shepherds. And what you need to do in your life is figure out what you’re closest to and figure out how to play that role. And society will be better once it has the right people in the right roles. And until that happens, it’s going to be chaos. And with Yes. 

 

Dan Fouts (31:16)

But there are, there are opportunities to become educated and move to different roles, experiences and your knowledge and self knowledge. But there has to be a process. It’s not like, Oh, I want to be a leader. I was a sheep, but I’d love to now lead the flock. It’s not that easy. 

 

Steve Fouts (31:40)

No, but anyway, we can get into it later, but this is, it’s, it’s a really rich parable to use. 

 

Dan Fouts (31:47)

Yeah. This is definitely not the last one on leadership that we will do. 

 

Jarvis Funches (31:52)

Crazy. 

 

Dan Fouts (31:52)

Well, all right. Well, let’s, this is great. I thought your question Jarvis was a showstopper. That’s fantastic. I can’t wait to see that one. Mic drop moment. It was great. Even a sheep must learn to lead the flock someday. Unknown, whoever said this, thank you, because we’ve now talked about it and now it’s going to be put out there for so many people. And there’s a lot to learn from this. And it was, it was a, it was a, it was a joy Jarvis. Thanks again for coming on. And uh, you’re going to be a frequent flyer on the Teach Different podcast. 

 

Steve Fouts (32:31)

Yeah, you already are. 

 

Jarvis Funches (32:33)

And to all my podcast listeners and my viewers out there, man. Listen, the question is, when do we know we got enough knowledge to even be leaders? And what I mean by that is like, really, really be honest with yourself. Like, is I’m in a good predicament to be a leader right now? Or should I be a follower right now? And in my granddaddy words, Hey, look. It’s okay to eat a little dirt because later on, we’re going to be eating steak. 

 

Steve Fouts (33:00)

I love it. Thank you for that one. 

 

Dan Fouts (33:04)

All right. Thanks everybody. And, uh, take care and we’ll see you soon on the Teach Different podcast.

 

Steve Fouts (33:09)

Take care.