“You can’t shake hands with a clenched fist.” Indira Gandhi – Trust

Transcript

Steve Fouts: 0:00 

Hey everybody, Steve and Dan Fouts here. We are teaching different with the former Prime Minister of India, Indira Gandhi, with a quote about trust, “you cannot shake hands with a clenched fist.” Now, trust is something that everybody experiences to some degree or another.  We go through our life depending on people for certain things, and that involves a degree of trust. Most of us have had the experience of someone not following through on something, which can generate mistrust. This quote is playing with the idea of trust and how you should approach other people when you want to have a friendship with them. How do you approach others knowing we live in a world full of trust and mistrust? What claim would you say she’s making? 

Dan Fouts: 1:19 – Claim

I think she’s coming down on the side that we should take risks with people. We should enter situations with an open hand, an open mind, and a willingness to give people the opportunity to demonstrate that they can be relied upon. If you go into an interaction with people with a clenched fist, then you’re not open, and it’s impossible to shake hands and cooperate. It’s almost like she’s saying, take a  risk, take a leap of faith with people.

Steve Fouts: 2:08 

I would add that she’s giving advice to someone who may be ready to take that leap, but they need strategies on how to do it. Some people think that being tough, and coming in with a clenched fist, is the way to get what you want from people. You’re expecting them to do the same thing. But, she’s pointing out that you have to be open, and trust other people in order to get things accomplished.

Dan Fouts: 2:45 

The context is important. She’s the former Prime Minister of India, so this quote was probably used in a political realm, with other nations and leaders.  We’re bringing it down to a personal level, about personally trusting other people. I think a good storytelling angle would be to ask the kids to talk about a time when they were open, and trusted somebody to do something. To talk about a time when they went into it, not with a clenched fist, but with an open mind and some optimism.  How did it work out when someone came through for them? A lot of good positive stories could come out of this. Depending on the ages of the students, you might want to give some examples to help them start thinking about this. You could talk about a sports team, and how if you’re open and trusting of a teammate, then they’re going to come through for you. The ages of the students will matter here. 

Steve Fouts: 4:00 

Yeah, that would be good to bring out those experiences. Let’s push back and think about a counterclaim to this quote. What comes to mind? 

Dan Fouts: 4:18 – Counterclaim

Having suspicion of people. People will let you down, so it’s better to not even try to cooperate. Sometimes distrusting people is a better way. It can be a way to protect you from harm. Don’t trust people is probably the counterclaim that works here. 

Steve Fouts: 4:48

Yeah. Let’s say that you actually want to shake hands with someone. You want fellowship. You want a trustworthy friend. Some people believe that you have to have conflict before you can have trust. I would say that another way to talk about the counterclaim is that it’s okay to be suspicious of other people. It’s okay to have that conflict and start off with a fist, but you can shake hands after you fight. Don’t avoid conflict in order to build trust with someone. I think those would both work. What do you think? 

Dan Fouts: 5:47 

I didn’t think of that angle at all, but that’s interesting. I would think the counterclaim should be more practical, that distrusting people has benefits. In other words, being suspicious of people’s motivations and desires can be a useful and beneficial attitude. It protects you, and may help you avoid a future disaster. That’s a very different mindset than being open and trusting people, but it’s not necessarily a bad attitude. I’m trying to think of what type of storytelling we could do with the students.

Steve Fouts: 6:51 

Just ask them to share experiences of when they went into a situation suspicious of someone, and they were proven right later. They were happy they didn’t fall prey to somebody trying to get them into a vulnerable situation. They were distrustful. 

Dan Fouts: 7:20 

When a student is mistrustful of other people in a classroom group, they don’t think the other students are going to pull their weight. When they get into the group, guess what happens? They don’t pull their weight, and the student ends up doing all the work. Sometimes it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you’re sending out vibes that you don’t trust somebody, then that can make them not want to do work.  I think the students could bring up some interesting stories when their negative gut instincts were proven correct. 

Steve Fouts: 8:01 

Right, and they’re glad they had a clenched fist. If they didn’t have one, they would have been beaten up. 

Dan Fouts: 8:09 

They would have been taken advantage of. 

Steve Fouts: 8:12 – Essential Question

Those are lessons where experience is the big teacher for knowing which side of trust or distrust to fall on. Which brings us to our essential question to wrap up the conversation. How do we know when to trust other people? I would love to get an answer to this question from anyone, especially adults who have more experience, and can set some criteria. I think an answer to this question will reveal how someone thinks about the risks involved when interacting with people, and where trust is needed or where trust is a bit naive.

Dan Fouts: 9:13 

How do you know? Do you read people instinctively? Do you go by their past behaviors? How do you make these decisions?  Everybody is going to have to answer this question on a daily basis throughout their life.

Steve Fouts: 9:33 

We hope you enjoyed Indira Gandhi this week. Make sure you visit our Conversation Library where we have many conversations like this, each with a different quote and a sample claim, counterclaim, and an essential question to get you started.

Thanks so much, everybody. We will see you soon. Remember to Teach Different with conversations and make a difference every day.