“The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members.” – Teach Different with Mahatma Gandhi

Transcript

Steve Fouts (00:10)

Welcome everybody to the Teach Different podcast here again with Jarvis Funches. We’re about to have, there you go. There you go. Yeah. I mean, Jarvis, what are you’re, you’re like making cameos now you’ve been here, what seven or eight times. We love having conversations for anyone who doesn’t know Jarvis was part of the origin story of Teach Different and he used to be a former student of mine. And, you know, we met in a U.S. history class in high school and Jarvis was one of my students and he helped inspire the Teach Different Method. He’s quite a conversationalist as you’re about to find out. And we’re going to have a really good quote today by Mahatma Gandhi that I’ll be sharing in a moment, but really quick, Teach Different method. We got the claim. We got the counterclaim. We got the central essential question, CCQ. We’re trying to figure out quick ways so that everybody can remember how this thing works.

 

Jarvis Funches (00:50)

Hehehe.

 

Steve Fouts (01:13)

But we’re going to talk about what the quote means first and we’re going to hopefully give some experiences on it, see whether or not we agree with it. Then we’ll flip the script. We’ll talk about the counterclaim. There’s more than one counterclaim, you know, there’s actually multiple perspectives. So we’re going to, we’re going to go into all that. And we’re also going to define the important words too, which sometimes ends up being what our essential questions are coming out of this. That’s the last part, right? What kind of questions are emerging from this. So let’s go from here and start it up. I’m going to read it a couple of times and then Jarvis, I’ll let you start it off and weigh in. And away we go. The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members. The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members.

 

Jarvis Funches (01:56)

Mm-hmm.

 

Steve Fouts (02:12)

And this is Mahatma Gandhi. Jarvis, away we go. What’s your feeling on this?

 

Jarvis Funches (02:19)

Today on this topic, like I was saying earlier, I feel like it’s kind of two-way, but I can agree on this because Gandhi also caught my attention besides the quote. Like I was reading, I did some research on him. He also said that strength is not valued by wealth or power, but by empathy and compassion. What I believe and I agree strongly on what he’s saying is because if we could show empathy or if we see a fellow brother that’s down and out, you know, motivationally or spiritually, you know, and we can go and pick this person up and we can let them know like, hey, you’re not in this by yourself. We rise together, we rise together. That lights a spark in him like, you know what? I’m not by myself. And it also helps them, you feel me? Like, get back on track in a way because like, instead of them being in that little dust and done little era now, they more of like, you know what? I can do it because it’s somebody else that can believe in me. So I do agree on this in some what, at some degree, because depending on the eye or the way we looking at it could be very, very different. But what are your thoughts on this?

 

Steve Fouts (03:37)

The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members. I like how you have used empathy as a way to associate with a weaker person. Because, you know, if you’ve got all the power, you’ve got all the influence, you’ve got all the control, and there are other people that don’t have that, that you might see as weak, and they might even consider themselves as weak and powerless. If you show the empathy and you like give them a framework to have a voice, you are going to uplift somebody. You’re going to, and I’m going to read this into the quote based off what you said, the society becomes stronger when we uplift everyone. If it’s just the strong and the weak or the people with the money and the people that are poor your society is never gonna be as great as it could be by lifting other people up. So I love empathy. Empathy is like that bridge where you can understand where someone’s coming from. You don’t judge them. You don’t say, hey, you’re weak. You’re never gonna be able to do anything. You give them the tools and the inspiration and the motivation to lift themselves up. And then the whole tide rises, right?

 

Jarvis Funches (04:42)

Exactly, sure.

 

Steve Fouts (05:03)

A rising tide rises all boats. That’s another quote, right? So I liked it. I like what you’re saying there, the empathy angle.

 

Jarvis Funches (05:15)

But sure, that’s just like all great kings. All great kings had to show empathy to all loyal subjects, to all loyal warriors because at that point, yeah, you are the man that’s in charge. You are the man with power, but who am I and what am I doing to help you? And if you could just, as a leader, just shine light on the little things that your team is doing, it makes them feel like what they’re doing is important. So it has them to stay on it and locked in and be passionate about it. You know what I’m saying? like, just, I agree with it. It took a certain standpoint, you know?

 

Steve Fouts (05:51)

What does weak mean to you? This is my kind of essential question I’m gonna throw in here. What do you think he means by weakest members?

 

Jarvis Funches (05:59)

Weakness doesn’t always really rely off the physical strength. Like I had noted right here, that’s crazy you asked me that question. It doesn’t always relies off of physical strength. It could be that your vision is weak. It could be that you have a weak brain. And what I mean by weak vision or weak brain, you’re not capable of creating your own vision. So instead of creating your own vision, you’d connect, fake relate to someone else’s vision. You see what I’m saying? So that way like we say You basically gave the power away already because you already defeated yourself. You see what I’m saying? The weight you don’t have that type of

 

Steve Fouts (06:40)

You’re just a follower. You’re just a follower of someone else’s personality or dreams.

 

Jarvis Funches (06:44)

of someone else’s vision because you don’t have that ambition or you feel that whatever you bring to the table, someone is going to deny or they’re going to have something bad to say about it. You know what I’m saying? like, it’s just, like, it’s tricky, man.

 

Steve Fouts (06:54)

Yeah. No, let me pick that up real quick. When you don’t have a sense of your own purpose or your own role, you know, the thing you do better than anyone else and that anyone who’s in your situation should focus on it 100 % because that’s what you’re bringing to the table for other people. You know, if you don’t know what that is and you’re just trying to like pretend, fake, emulate others, you’re just chasing someone else’s dreams.

 

Jarvis Funches (07:27)

for sure. Mm-hmm.

 

Steve Fouts (07:37)

The only thing that I’ll kind of push back on a little bit with that, as I say it is the idea of like leaders and followers. And we’ve talked about this before. Both are necessary. And just because you’re a follower doesn’t mean that you’re weak. Sometimes like the best leaders are the best followers. Cause if you’re not able to like follow a rule and be reliable and you know listen to what someone else is saying and do what they’re telling you to do. If you can’t do that you’re not going to be a good leader. So I don’t want to like talk about following as being such a bad thing in all cases if you know what I mean. But it’s like when you lose yourself or you never have it that weakness is what you’re saying.

 

Jarvis Funches (08:08)

Mm-hmm. Sure. There you go. There you go. See, see, now there you go. Now you kind of like, you just blew the cap off of it right there. It’s a big difference. Like you said, it’s not a problem with being a follower by no means necessary because you have to learn from somewhere. But all followers even know who they are. You know what I’m saying? Like you got to know who you is personally. You might not have the leadership qualifications, which is okay. We are okay with that because the sixth man of the year.

 

Steve Fouts (08:55)

Can’t have too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

Jarvis Funches (08:58)

Hey, you see I’m saying? Or even better yet, the sixth man of the year. You could come off the bench and be bringing in buckets. So it’s not about you being a follower. It’s about knowing the quality. Like you said earlier, you have to know what you’re bringing to the table to give to other people. You see what I’m saying? And that’s be the problem now though. So like, if you don’t know who you is personally, you don’t know who you giving to the next person. You just giving off imitations and stuff that you picked up along the way. So like you, you, like nobody knows who you are truly. You know what I’m saying? So–

 

Steve Fouts (09:28)

Yeah. No, I like, I like this angle. I like the angle we got going here. And so let’s, let’s flip it, right? unless you wanted to, you know, think of another question or whatever, but we can work them in. can work it in. Here’s the quote again, and we’re going to flip it and, and think a different way about this. The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members. The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members. Any thoughts on another perspective on this that is just as good?

 

Steve Fouts (10:07)

My point of perspective was, and it’s not even my disagreement claim. I just had a different point of view of this quote because like I was thinking to myself as I was taking down my notes, like it’s okay to empower other people, right? It truly is. But what about the people that feel that they don’t need to empower others? They just focus on the immediate, which is family or close relatives. What if these people don’t feel the need to come out and project that niceness into the world? You have a lot of people that drive past little strangers or whatever the case is and don’t feel any empathy about none so ever. So we do gotta relate to these people too. What about the people that don’t wanna help others? What about the people that just think about helping themselves? You should know what saying, that’s why I say that it’s difficult.

 

Steve Fouts (10:58)

Yeah, and maybe having a job that helps society, you know, they play a role, they just are not empathetic.

 

Jarvis Funches (11:04)

Yeah, for sure. Exactly. And I feel like the role that they play is showing independency. And what I mean by they show independency in a way is that they don’t show their empathy with them going in their pockets or going out of their way to provide for you. They show their empathy by showing you, look, if I can do it, you can do it. And if I could do it the hard way, you can do it the hard way as well. And a lot of people may take that as being arrogant or selfish or even being naive sometimes but that’s not the case all the time with certain people. Certain people really do believe that you can make it, but if I just keep giving you handouts, you’re not gonna make it because eventually you’re gonna come back for that handout and you’re not progressing. You see what I’m saying?

 

Steve Fouts (11:50)

Man, I’m sorry. That’s really good there because you know what you just did back door. You started talking about the stereotypes of liberals and conservatives. People think liberals, the left, are the empathetic ones, the ones that are always trying to help the poor and raise up the people that don’t have the opportunity and social justice and always fighting for the little guy in there. Right?

 

Jarvis Funches (12:20)

Yep.

 

Steve Fouts (12:20)

But you just also pointed out that there are people that aren’t empathetic. They’re more independent. They’re more like, you know what, pick yourself up. Like, don’t wait for a handout. Don’t wait for the powers that be to try to lift you up. Do this on your own, like me, and you can live a life that’s very fulfilling. And it’s about you. Okay. Granted, you’re not thinking about other people, but you’re still playing an incredible role and you’re taking all your energy, you’re putting it to yourself and your family. So like, you just convinced me that left and right, they’re both valid. These are both valid ways of thinking about things.

 

Jarvis Funches (12:57)

Exactly. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And what I learned over time is that not everybody is wrong. It truly is the point of view that we all look at it from. Like you may look at something a different way and I may look at something a different way. It’s not that me and you are two different people or nothing. It’s just our brains are wired two different ways. are visualizing this in two different worlds. We’re imagining this in two different worlds. So it’s like, it’s not that any one of us are wrong. It’s just me and you are seeing the world at two different point of views And that’s why a lot of people can really bump heads at it’s just like like they always say you don’t see an eagle flying in packs which you don’t and That’s what I feel like the liberals are those are in the people like like you know what I’m saying like they they fly independent they are the Eagles and then you have the buffaloes that just travel in packs it’s not that they are weak that they travel in packs, but they feel like protecting the little man brings them justice or brings them certification or gratification. like, but these two animals plays a role in ecosystem. You see what I’m saying? And neither one of them are wrong. The eagle flies by itself because I’m independent. I learned that if I sit in the mud and wait on a superhero to come, I’ll drown. Okay. And you guys realize that, maybe it’s not a superhero that’s going to come get you, but if I’m around, can save you. So it’s like 50-50. That’s why I it’s always 50-50. But I love the eagle and the buffalo because a lot of people are independent, you know? And a lot of people don’t like their peace being disturbed because I am being independent. You know, it take a lot of, it take a long time for people to even pour that love into their self like they pour into other people. So who are we to judge these people? They probably took a lot to pour that love into themselves, you know?

 

Steve Fouts (15:07)

This is crazy, man. And you just use the eagle example as the independent one. And you, were just talking about liberals, right? And then the conservatives are the buffaloes in this example that you just gave. And that’s giving me, it’s making me realize that there’s so, like you’re saying, there’s so many different ways. Cause I think you’re right about the independence of liberals.

They’re not group think type people. They all have their own causes. You know what I’m saying? Like some are climate change, all about climate change. Others are about, you know, helping the poor. Others are about like equality and rights and making sure we don’t like mistreat people because of their own preferences, right? So they’re, they’re independent minded. They’re very spirited with their morality. Whereas there are lots of people that are really more following certain, I don’t know, the crowd. They’re more predictable. They’re more cut out a little bit. Like I just want my suburban home. I got my grass. I’m gonna respect this grass. You respect my grass. I got my driveway, got my house. You got yours. Let’s watch out for each other. And I don’t know if I want to call that conservative, but it’s more I don’t know. I really, I’m starting to believe that liberals conservatives left right is not, it’s all the same. It’s like perspective, Because I gotta i’ve been thinking a lot about America and you know, you’ve got trump who’s been here quite a long time now like 12 years ever since he got here, and since he’s been here, there’s so much animosity left and right, and we’re in it now. We’re so divided, right? We’re polarized. I think the moment we realize, like you and I know right now, that left and right is so not comprehensive enough. It’s not a good way to divide us. There’s other… It’s about us, right? And I don’t know if you have a quick opinion, you know, but I’m tired of the back and forth and the hating of other people based on what I think is like a fake war. This stuff is just made up.

 

Jarvis Funches (17:39)

Yeah. It is. It’s all an illusion. That’s why I also said many podcasts earlier, like I’m one of those people, I don’t believe in race. I don’t believe in colors. I don’t believe in none of that. I believe that if you breathe, you got the same heartbeat as I got. We just two different skin color. It doesn’t matter. You could be green, yellow, pink or blue. At the end of the day, it depends on how me and you connect as human beings. Unity, unity is the most strongest thing. The things that like we said earlier, it is people in the world that play specific roles like Donald Trump. I don’t want to say he’s a divider, but he plays a role in being a divider. Because instead of you having the power that you have, you could come in the office and you could just say, you know what? All the BS out the window. We are all equal. We all do it together. We all do this together. You could be the first president to break history. You know what? No more discrimination. No more area codes. No more this, no more that. We all can, we all live together in harmony. We don’t have area codes. You can go to this school. They can go to this school. We can do all this together. Like, but you know why they won’t do that? Because it’s the game. And like the game that me and you already know, they always be playing. It’s a game. It’s a level. They want us to be in certain brackets and in certain bracket tiers. But us as a whole, once we like, like say for instance our podcast, get out to me, it’s the others and stuff like that. And we get to teaching these people that left and right, It’s pretty much the same. Now guess what? We got a 1.5 million people that look at the world totally differently now. They don’t even look at the world as well. They’re this type of people where they’re needy or they’re independent. No, no, no, no, no. We are all the same. That brother’s entitled to his stuff. He put in work for that. You didn’t. He’s independent. He’s showing you what independence he look like. If you stop waiting on your handout and you put that work in, this is what you can get. We are not, there’s no need to envy him. He’s showing you firsthand that if he can do it, you can do it. You know what saying? So the world is just, it’s weird, but you know, we gonna reach out, we gonna touch some more people though. We gonna help fix it in our own way, you know, for sure.

 

Steve Fouts (19:54)

Good. It’s a different way of looking at the world, right? And it’s just as contagious. Okay, I know dividing people, getting that hate up, it is powerful. Because if people aren’t happy with themselves in their life, and you are giving them stuff to really hate someone else on, they’re gonna be all over that, all right? There’s a power there. But there’s also a power in the unity and the, what is needed with unity is everybody has to feel like they’ve got a role in the game. Cause if you have people that don’t feel like they got a role, the unity is not going to work. They’re going to go back to the hate. And that’s, you know, back to your thing, like, you know, you step up as a president, you could do anything. You could change the world. You know, you can set a tone, you can create harmony, you know, and you can also get up and bring out the worst in people. It’s really, it’s the power you have, right? That’s what the power of a leader is.

 

Jarvis Funches (21:06)

But sure, like simple stuff like weenie, you don’t even have to make the whole world like marathons, little runs and stuff like that. Like you got a private detail. Like I’m not saying get out here at the president and run a marathon, but the president just hosted a free marathon for all around the world. You know what saying? And everybody just run in it because it’s united. Everybody’s being united. It’s for the president. You know what saying? And then he could just reveal, I just really want all y’all to run together so y’all could understand to live and learn from each other. You know how much stuff that you can learn from an Indian? Or from a Mexican? Or from a Black person? Or from a Caucasian? Because we’ve all been living. so many different lives. If we come in unity, we can show each other so many different tricks and tips and all kind of extravagant things. Like we still got people living in the jungle. We’re staying with lights. We got people still living in the jungle. They know how to make four houses out of sticks and trees. Like we can learn this stuff. man, like I just be thinking about the like, man, G like, we all care.

 

Steve Fouts (22:09)

Yeah, that’s. It’s so true. And we’re so different, like you’re saying, and some people, they believe that diversity is a weakness. They’d rather do same to same because there’s less moving parts. That’s, like I get it, because sometimes being around people like you is easier. It’s more predictable and all that.

 

Jarvis Funches (22:44)

Mmm. Mm-hmm. in the

 

Steve Fouts (23:00)

But again, if you’ve got a context and you can bring other people’s voices out and get their experiences, you are gonna learn a lot and you’re gonna like people. You’re gonna like people from other places. It is the context though, right? Because if all we’re doing is watching the news and we’re watching the ICE agents, just be taking these people away from their families or we’re watching other negative stuff and race baiting and all that stuff, that stuff’s going on that’s dividing.

 

Jarvis Funches (23:32)

And that creates the stereotype. That right there. And I feel like the news plays a big part in dividing too because I’m not going to sit right here and sugar coat it. If I got on the news and I’m seeing a bunch of Mexicans running around just shooting each other or a bunch of Chinese, I’m going to think to myself, I don’t want to be around those people because they are crazy. They are pity full and you know what saying like that’s just what I’m gonna start to think off of what I’m of what they’re projected and showing me you know what saying so now I’m taking this image and I’m gonna put this image and I’m gonna put it in a label as a whole the whole time the Mexicans probably the sweetest people I love tortillas and I love the wonderful stuff I never even tasted before I’m like what the heck what is this you know like, But they try to point that and it’s just bad. So you have to watch what you look at. And I truly say that to everybody. You have to watch what you looking at and while you are looking at things, please look at things from a lot of different point of views because you could get egotistic and lock in on a ton of visual and then that’ll be all you see and your ego won’t allow you to change it.

 

Steve Fouts (24:32)

You really do. Yes, yes. Well said, well said. And that actually rounds us perfect to your original thing about empathy. know, cause empathy really is that perspective search that you’re talking about. You know, if you start with empathy and back to the Gandhi quote, the measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members. You got empathy and you know, you really don’t want to believe anybody is weak truly, you want to look at these categories we give each other and you want to treat people like human beings who have a role and something to give, that’s a measure of your society. That’s a justice that you’re bringing to the world. That’s your statement, right? That if you’re the leader, you’re saying that about the world and about other people. And that’s, I mean, that’s a beautiful thing. It’s, I wish there were more of it, obviously. And I’m sure you do too, but  we’re stuck in the middle of left versus right right now. And I want to look back two years from now and just be like, what were you all talking about? Left versus right? What you thinking? Like what? I want to just look back at it, you know, and just laugh.

 

Jarvis Funches (26:02)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. That’s why I love having these conversations because just little conversations like this, can expand your brain to a variety of things. This quote just took us around the whole world and brought us back. And it was all positive.

 

Steve Fouts (26:33)

You set the tone on this one. Yeah, you set the tone. I didn’t see empathy here. It was a perfect word. I think that’s what, that’s what did this. And of course, speaking of carrying this on next week, we’re going to Boulder, Colorado, Jarvis, Steve. You know Dan, he’s my brother. He’s not here today, but we’re going to be having a really good community conversation.

 

Jarvis Funches (26:41)

Yeah, that’s sharp. We’re sure.

 

Steve Fouts (27:01)

with some people from Boulder, Colorado. And they’re really interested in Teach Different. They wanna hopefully help out and be part of what we do. And we’re gonna welcome them in and have a wonderful conversation. I don’t know what quote we’re using yet, Jarvis. We’ll talk about it.

 

Jarvis Funches (27:17)

We gotta go hands on, man. We gotta make them get out their seats with these, man. We gotta go hands on. For sure.

 

Steve Fouts (27:22)

That’s right. That’s right. And we’re going to work on that real idea with you, right, tomorrow. And look, if that thing doesn’t come through, we’re driving out there from Chicago. So we’re going to make it.

 

Jarvis Funches (27:28)

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Road trips, because we can’t miss it. We want to show all our Teach Different people and our family how important you guys are to us, just period. And how bad we want to even help and expand. And if you guys can get out there and help expand the Teach Different in any way, form, or fashion, that’ll be so much positive, because we need the positivity and the unity in the world.

 

Steve Fouts (27:55)

Time for a social movement. Not adversarial, not left right, not polarizing, understanding, not winning. You don’t need to win anything. Just understand stuff. Become wise.

 

Jarvis Funches (27:58)

You Nothing. Exactly, there you go. Yes sir, yes sir.

 

Steve Fouts (28:13)

Amen. Thank you, Jarvis. Again, we will talk soon. mean, you know, next time you’re on, we’ll talk about how that Boulder event, you know, went so everybody can hear about it. All right. Take care, everybody.

 

Jarvis Funches (28:22)

Yeah, for sure.