“It is by suffering those human beings become angels.” Victor Hugo – Suffering

Transcript

Steve Fouts: 0:05 

Hey everybody, Steve and Dan Fouts here. We are teaching different with French poet Victor Hugo with a quote about suffering. “It is by suffering those human beings become angels.” A really quick note that the sound quality isn’t up to snuff. Dan and I are practicing social distancing and are doing this recording over the phone. It isn’t as good as you’re used to, but hopefully you can understand. Now, this quote is heavy. It has the words suffering and angels. I think it’s safe to say that angels is a word used to describe someone who has good moral character, someone who has become good in some way through suffering. Students are going through challenges at school, and some of them have it easier than others. They recognize this, and they also recognize which students seem to  have good moral characters that they can rely on and look up to. They are nice and generous. Other students may be in a developmental stage where they’re not that pleasant to be around. They may be mean to others. What would you say the claim of this quote is? 

Dan Fouts: 1:37 – Claim

I think he’s saying that suffering brings out the best in us. That might be the simplest way to say it. There’s something about going through intense hardship that makes us generous, kind, and understanding. That’s how I would process it. 

Steve Fouts: 1:57 

So, it would be interesting to hear from students as to how they came out of a bad situation, and do they feel that they’re a better person because of it?

Dan Fouts: 2:09 

In situations where there’s widespread suffering, like with the Coronavirus  outbreak, 911, and every war, you always see people doing great deeds and acts. 

Steve Fouts: 2:36 

Let’s push back against this claim. What is the counterclaim? What’s another way of looking at the world that doesn’t necessarily contradict this, but gives another perspective? 

Dan Fouts: 2:52 – Counterclaim

I’m thinking about suffering. While I would agree that it creates situations where people do great things, I don’t think it’s necessarily required. There could be people who haven’t gone through a lot of  suffering, who’ve maybe had a pretty easy life. They might feel guilty about it, and feel obliged to help as a result. Someone who’s born into a wealthy family, for instance, might say I’m going to  devote my life to giving away a lot of my money to those less fortunate. In that case, it was their wealth, and their philanthropy that made them angels. 

Steve Fouts: 3:41 

One thing I would add to that, being from the city of Chicago, is that I’ve noticed people who visit Chicago react differently to the homeless population and the beggars. They’re more likely to give. I see this indebtedness that they feel. When you talk to someone who’s lived in Chicago, and maybe gone through some really difficult times in the city, they’ll walk right by a homeless person like they’re just part of their environment and not someone who even deserves their time or attention. That’s one thing that I’ve always noticed and wondered about. Why is that?  It might have something to do with this counterclaim. If you haven’t gone  through a difficult life, maybe you are in a better position to be a good person and to help others. 

Dan Fouts: 4:46 

Pushing back against that, if you look at giving money to charity, a lot of  times the people who give the most to charity are the ones who are not wealthy, but people who can empathize. 

Steve Fouts: 5:00 

There’s actually data to support that. It’s  because they empathize.

Dan Fouts: 5:00 

That’s another way of looking at this. This would be a really interesting  conversation for the kids. You could ask them when they have suffered, and did it create a sense of goodness in them?  Then you could ask if anyone has gone through suffering where it caused a different reaction. Maybe they became bitter, or indifferent to others. 

Steve Fouts: 5:32 – Essential Question

I think both are valid. Let’s look at an essential question we could use to wrap up the conversation and put reflection on overdrive for the students. Do you have to go through suffering to be a good  person? 

Dan Fouts: 5:51 

I love the opportunity here to connect this essential question with those events  in society like the virus outbreak, 911, a World War, wherever there is chaos, and suffering all around.  To have the kids go through this conversation, look at this essential question, and then study the people in those crisis events who became angels, to use Victor Hugo’s language. I think it would give the kids an appreciation for the people who had to go through suffering to do good things. 

Steve Fouts: 6:33 

I’m imagining a few articles on some of the heroes during the Coronavirus or 911. The first responders,  nurses, and doctors who risked their lives to help others and became our angels. The students would really appreciate those types of stories. 

Dan Fouts: 7:04 

It would be a fantastic discussion, and it would get the kids to think of their own life, and whether or not they want to be an angel or hero. 

Steve Fouts: 7:16 

It would raise their awareness of how they’re going to respond when life gets difficult. These are great. 

We hope you enjoyed Victor Hugo and this conversation about suffering.  Make sure you visit our Conversation Library where we have many conversations like this, each with a different quote, a sample claim, counterclaim, and an essential question to get you started.

Thanks, everybody. We will see you soon.  

Dan Fouts: 7:58 

Alright. Take care.