“It’s better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in war.” Teach Different with Bruce Lee

Transcript

Steve Fouts (00:10)

Well, welcome everybody to the Teach Different Podcast. We have a wonderful, thought provoking quote today from Bruce Lee, which is a name that probably if you’re over 30 years old, maybe even 40 years old, used to be a household name, a martial artist and actor, has got a really thought provoking quote that I’m looking forward to digging into. I have a guest from Folsom, California, and his name is Aaron Robinet, and we’re going to have a really good discussion about this. Why Folsom? Why Aaron? Teach Different right now is doing a project in Folsom, California with the middle and the high schools. We’re going to be certifying some teachers in this conversation technique that we’re actually going to be, of course, modeling right now. And for those of you new to the podcast, how does this technique work? Right? It’s very, very simple, straightforward. We’re going to start with a quote. I’ll be saying it a couple times, and I’ll keep repeating the quote throughout our conversation, but the quote’s going to frame the conversation. Then we’re going to talk about the claim of what the quote means. We’ll look into some counterclaims, some different ways of looking at the world and push against. Maybe some of the wisdom that Bruce Lee is bringing out to us after we decipher what that wisdom is. And then we usually end with a few questions. We call them essential questions. These are the curious questions. These are the questions that kind of emerge when you’re trying to understand a couple different viewpoints and you want to, you want to reconcile some things. Ideally, these questions can come out any time during the conversation, but we like to end it with a few questions. So that’s the method. That’s how it works. We’re about to kick this off here and we have our quote. I’m going to read it a couple times and then I’ll let Aaron introduce himself because he’ll weigh in first about the quote and away we go. So here it is. It’s better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in war. It’s better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in war, Bruce Lee. Aaron, welcome to the Teach Different Podcast.

Feel free to introduce yourself and weigh in, and away we go. 

 

Aaron Robinet (03:11)

All right. So I’m Aaron Robinet as you just introduced. I am a personal trainer. I work with a few different types of people, but a large portion of that is working with young athletes. And, so let me get into what I think about this quote. So there’s a lot more to it, but kind of the basics of this is the, what the quote means to me is it’s better to be prepared and have done all the work to be prepared and be in a situation that you don’t need it rather than jump into a situation where you need a lot of preparedness and you need a lot of backgrounds and everything and you have none of it. You’ve done no preparation and you’re in a position where you’re just completely exposed because of lack of preparation.

 

Steve Fouts (04:09)

Interesting. I didn’t get the word prepare, but I, now it’s obvious to me. It’s better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in war. So you’re basically saying it’s better to really over prepare than under prepare, maybe as a quick way of saying it. You want to be ready when the skillset is needed to get you through a situation. And if you’re not ready, then you’re not, you’re going to be in trouble. Am I getting you? 

 

Aaron Robinet (04:52)

Yeah, that’s my basis. Probably the biggest thing I get from that quote. That sums it up right there. 

 

Steve Fouts (05:00)

That’s great. That’s great, it makes sense to me. What, well, being a personal trainer Aaron, connect that for me because I know that you know, you’re more than just a hey, let’s do these exercises, you know, let’s get up and let’s set up these routines. You have to deal with the mental world… 

 

Aaron Robinet (05:25)

Right 

 

Steve Fouts (05:25)

… all day with trying to motivate people. Connect the quote to that if you can, and some of your experiences if you have some in mind. 

 

Aaron Robinet (05:36)

The first thing I have in mind with that is whether you’re someone that’s just trying to get in shape or you’re an athlete that’s really trying to go far in athletics, a person can get really deep into the journey of it and I’ll focus on athletes right now. So get really deep into the athletic journey, and they hit a point where, whether it’s because they haven’t done the work or they just don’t know what the work is to do, they are starting to lose their ability to compete at the level that they’re at. And from that point, they lose their motivation. So really understanding why that, when we’re talking about the mental aspect, why they want to do this preparing. So from that mental aspect of being able to persevere through those challenges when you hit a rough patch, when you hit a competition, it’s consistently beating you and you feel like you can’t put any resistance up against them, you’re just not at that talent level. Do you then quit at that point? Or do you do everything that you can to work hard and get over that level and compete. Rise up to the competition you’re facing. And so for instance, I wrote a book Athlete Unleashed, in the first chapter, I call it the joy of the game. And the whole focus there is figuring out why you want to do the sport, the event, whatever it is. If you don’t have that, well, you can get pretty far, but when you hit that rough patch, is it going to cause you to leave the sport? 

 

Steve Fouts (07:28)

I get that because a lot of times skill sets are like natural abilities, maybe you hit your growth spurt early and you’re bigger than a lot of the other kids or whatever and you’re really good at these sports. You have a lot of success. There will come a time where everything starts evening out a little bit, you know, the higher the level of the competition, you just find that there’s so many people on your level. You have to dig inside and have another reason to want to get over that hump. You know, when you realize that your skill sets maybe are kind of interchangeable with a lot of people that are on your same level, but what is that thing that pushes you that why is that kind of what you were getting after that? And that’s a big, you want to talk about an essential question. The why. Why are you in this? What is your goal? How do they answer that?

when you pose that, I mean different ways, Aaron, but is that blank stare that you get when you’re trying to raise their consciousness and you’re trying to basically get them to even consider the why? 

 

Aaron Robinet (08:52)

Yeah, I think that’s probably, out of everything I do, that can be the hardest question for almost everyone because they think, okay, well, you know, I asked why and they’re like, because. It’s what I do. It’s, but you need to get to that next level. So you’re right. That is an essential question. Really understanding. I mean, the successful athletes, the successful people in life, they really understand their why. And that gets them through the roadblocks, the challenges that they come up in life.

 

Steve Fouts (09:30)

Yep. Yep. And that’s obviously true and not just athletics, but really everything you get that, why. There’s other quotes that are coming to mind, you know, the minute you know the why you can deal with any, how, things like that, like you can get over adversity. Adversity doesn’t even exist in a way. It’s just become part of your journey because you’re so clear as to what you want to do and what you want to end up as. And again, back to this quote, it’s better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in war. I mean, you gave the preparation angle. I’m sold on it. It’s better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in war. I also am looking at that word warrior and I’m wondering why he chose warrior. What’s your thinking on this? Is it this idea of being someone who is way over qualified? In a way to do something, because you think of gardening, gardening is such a passive thing. I’m wondering why he used the word warrior.

That’s my question. 

 

Aaron Robinet (10:57)

Obviously, not knowing and never meeting, Bruce Lee, he died when I was probably two years old, but my speculation on him, he was such a phenomenal martial artist and he really put forward that martial arts. That was his identity in his movies, who he was, and I think some people probably looked at it as well, it’s aggressive. It’s, why would you want to do that? Why wouldn’t you want to, you know, find peace or whatever? And I think that was, he seemed to me very philosophical. And I think that was his response to that is, it’s better to have that ability. So be the warrior and then be at peace rather than try and be at peace with people that may be coming at him. 

 

Steve Fouts (11:57)

Now, I’m sorry to interrupt. Oh, that’s good. You just got me. I get it now. I’m thinking of a bully. 

 

Aaron Robinet (12:08) 

That would be a big one.

 

Steve Fouts (12:09)

Right? Because if you walk into a situation where you’re a gardener and a bully is around. And you don’t have the skill sets to defend yourself, 

 

Aaron Robinet (12:21)

Right? 

 

Steve Fouts (12:22)

That’s not good. Okay. But if you’re a good person and you have martial arts training, you can be passive. You can be kind to people. You can withhold that anger that you know you have. And you know, am I getting into what you were thinking here? It’s wow. 

 

Aaron Robinet (12:50)

I have a story about someone else. If you don’t mind me sharing this one. Speaking of martial arts, there was a guy sitting in a bar and this other guy comes up to him and says, you’re in my seat. And the guy’s like, Oh, I, you know, he’d been sitting there for some time. He said, Oh, I’m sorry. So he gets up. He moves to the next seat. And the other guy seemed like he wanted to challenge this guy that was sitting in a seat. The other guy just moved over, so he sits down. After a few minutes he’s looking at him, he realizes, this is Chuck Norris, the guy that he moved over. He said, I’m sorry, man, I didn’t recognize you. And he said, why didn’t you just take me out? He says, you know what? Anytime I can avoid a conflict. I will. I, and that, that kind of makes me think of that quote as well.

 

Steve Fouts (13:47)

I’ve heard Mike Tyson say something like that. Okay. Wanting to avoid conflicts and being afraid every time before a fight. Where you wouldn’t think that Mike Tyson would be afraid. But that’s really an insight here. Now I’m thinking about people that just spout off in the mouth. And they’re always talking a big game. Those are not the warriors. You know, those are the, probably the vulnerable ones. It’s those people that don’t put this out in the universe all the time and avoid conflict that are the ones that you’re going to be in trouble if you think that they’re weak and you try them and here they are a warrior in a garden. You know, they’re just, they’re ready.

 

Aaron Robinet (15:01) 

Right. 

 

Steve Fouts (15:04)

Well, I like it. I like it. So, okay, now I’m primed on this quote. I’ve got a good sense. This is really good, Aaron, because I didn’t beforehand. I wasn’t sure how to take this quote, honestly, and this, I think you’ve done really good with the prepare thing and this other angle on conflict and seeking it or not. Let’s push against the quote. All right. We know about the counterclaim here. 

 

Aaron Robinet (15:36)

Right? 

 

Steve Fouts (15:36)

And  I’ll give it to you. If you want to share, maybe another way to look at this, or maybe a risk of this, I’d like to hear from you on a counterclaim to this quote.

 

Aaron Robinet (15:50)

Okay. So, my thoughts on the counterclaim, and I hadn’t thought about this until, you know, we were preparing to do this podcast, but I can see why the biggest counterclaims, at least in my mind, is a person thinking, well, if I put all this work in and I do all this background and I become a warrior, well, why won’t I use it when I’m in the garden? And that could be very dangerous. It could be you’re putting your warrior ability or your martial arts or whatever it is against people that they want to be in the garden. They don’t want the conflict. So then you become the bully or the, you know, that sort of thing.

 

Steve Fouts (16:38)

There’d be a temptation to use it.

 

Aaron Robinet (16:41)

Right, right. 

 

Steve Fouts (16:42)

Why spend all the time and energy in becoming a warrior and then you become meek because you’re in the garden. I mean, is that realistic? Wouldn’t you want to like, I guess, challenge yourself more and show how you keep your skills where they want to be? Do you need conflict? I’m kind of asking the same types of questions here. Maybe it’s not realistic, huh?

 

Aaron Robinet (17:24)

Yeah, in my life, I have seen times where, and I’m not sure if this is the warrior or more of what you were talking about, the the insecure or the vulnerable it’s probably more of those type of people, maybe even thinking that they are the warrior, and I’ll go back to the athletics that they will not move up in competition. So if you have a certain age group and you have different levels within that competition, they’ll stay at the lower competition because they want to be the big fish in the small pond rather than challenge themselves and move themselves up to a point where they may have to really work to come up to that level.

 

Steve Fouts (18:09) 

Complacency. Yes, it can cause complacency. I’m with you. I think that’s a really good counterclaim and I’ve got to share this. It’s not a warrior example, but in fifth grade, I was doing well in math. The teacher took me out into the hall and I’ll never forget, he put his finger on the wall and he said, Steve, you’re going like this in this class. And he did kind of a quick gesture with his finger to the right. And then he went back to the original point and he said, The rest of this class is going like this. And then he did it really slow. And he said, do you want to move from this class? And I could put you in the pre algebra class. Or, I can’t remember what it was, but it was a level higher. And I said, no,I have always wondered whether that was a mistake, but I was thinking, well, then I’ve got to meet new people. I’ve got to get used to a new teacher. I wasn’t even thinking of the challenge. I was kind of flattered because he was telling me I was doing better than everyone else, but I actually liked being the warrior in the garden. I mean, I don’t know what to think of that. Is that a good or a bad thing? But I have to say that actually set a tone for the next five years because I was always a year behind everyone else who was in the higher math. But guess what? I ended up being a math teacher in high school. So how did it, did it really affect me? I don’t know, but there’s my example.

 

Aaron Robinet (20:17) 

I think that’s a good example though.

 

Steve Fouts (20:22)

Because we do push kids, Aaron, like we, I’m sure see this with the parents and some of the pressures, the anxieties to do well, sometimes these kids are appendages of their parents and people are just living their dreams through them. When a lot of these kids may just want balance, they might not take sports that seriously. And that’s okay. You know, we shift our priorities of the things we care about being good at, right? And we’ve actually had a couple podcasts that talk about how do you know when you should be quitting something,

you know, you can always treat it like you’re giving up and get down on yourself and what’s wrong. You can’t handle adversity, stick to it, stick to it, stick to it. Yeah. But sometimes. Switching it up and quitting is exactly what you need to do so you can find what you’re good at, you know and it’s a hard question and i’m mixing some quotes here in my head, but I’m kind of working toward a question. Is there anything coming to your mind, Aaron, as far as a question from this? 

 

Aaron Robinet (21:52)

Not necessarily a question, but I have something to add to what you’re saying. 

 

Steve Fouts (21:57)

Yeah. 

 

Aaron Robinet (21:58)

And I look at as, you know, if you played sports, I’m sure you’ve seen this, but growing up, playing sports, having that one kid who may be talented, maybe even the most talented on on a particular team, but his parents are pushing and pushing and pushing and I look back and think about for one thing, if my parents were like that, and they pushed me because I was I was very internally driven and I drove myself to the point where I burned out. But if my parents pushed me, I probably would have hated sports. Baseball was my big sport and I would have hated baseball and that would have been far more tragic for me. But I also think about looking, going back to that kid who’s really talented and maybe doesn’t have the passion for it. But if they’re allowed to quit or leave their sport or branch out, maybe they find something that they’re even better at, or maybe even not better right now, but they, they have the ability to really go after it and become much more talented or much more successful at that new thing than they were at the sport or the previous thing.

 

Steve Fouts (23:19)

I think absolutely that’s true. And, you know, as to who is making that decision, whether it’s the parents or the kids or some combination that’s gotta be dealt with very delicately. 

 

Aaron Robinet (23:40)

Yes. 

 

Steve Fouts (23:41)

You know, I understand the forces at play there, but there you are. Sometimes you may not know what you should be good at. So I’m going to throw this out. Maybe a question that’s coming to me on this has to do with that a little bit. How do you know what it is that you’re good at?

 

Aaron Robinet (24:18)

The one thing I’ll say, there’s certain things that, you know, people recognize very early or maybe the parents recognize very early that they have a talent for. And yeah, they’re good at that. I kind of look at that more as what does a person really want to do and will work hard to continue to do. And ultimately get good at it’s I don’t think, there are a lot of people out there in the world would, you know, look at the whole population that, or if they just find their one thing, they’re, they’re going to be a virtuoso or something like that at that one thing. But I think it’s the, what will drive them to get them up in the morning, get them excited and work through those challenging points at the thing that they really enjoy doing. So for me,  that’s more about finding that. To bring us back, it goes back to, you know, what the why is in anything.

 

Steve Fouts (25:26)

I was about to bring it back to the why you follow my train of thought, because if you don’t have the why, your skill sets, your natural abilities, will only take you so far. 

 

Aaron Robinet (25:38)

Right.

 

Steve Fouts (25:38)

And of course, Bruce here is saying it’s better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in war. You know, this is such a thought provoking quote about preparedness, you know, and just, I don’t know, almost like being vigilant and not needing to use your skill sets is better than to be in a situation where you need skill sets to survive. Very thought provoking. I really enjoyed this. You got me interested in Bruce Lee. He had, this isn’t his only quote. He was a philosopher, wasn’t he? He’s a profound thinker. 

 

Aaron Robinet (26:38)

Yes, I agree. 

 

Steve Fouts (26:39)

This was very pleasant, Aaron, I really appreciate you coming on. I hope you kind of appreciate the method a little bit more. You know, I just reached out to you randomly, what a couple of weeks ago and as you know, this is the method we teach teachers to really bring out quotes like this and challenge kids to think about this stuff deeply, you know, and to never feel as if we’re angling toward them, believing a certain thing, or we’re wanting them to take a certain perspective, but challenging them with the critical thinking aspect, because, as you know, Aaron, think about the mentality of athletes. The athlete has to be the one that’s making the decision. 

 

Aaron Robinet (27:38)

I agree. 

 

Steve Fouts (27:40)

You know, as much as people want to push it, you’ve got to internalize this stuff. The reason to keep going on and by internalizing both positions, you know, in an argument or we didn’t have an argument, but you know what I mean? In different perspectives on something, you can actually decide for yourself which one, and it might stick because it’s you.

 

Aaron Robinet (28:13) 

I agree. I really, I really have enjoyed this, especially a quote that over the last few years, I’ve really, thought about and have one perspective, having to think about the opposite perspective of it. And where it could be, I don’t know, detrimental, if you will, or it could be, at least just thought of differently. I think that was very good. I really enjoy that. 

 

Steve Fouts (28:44)

Yeah. It strengthens the argument. They’re not arguments, I used the word argument twice and I don’t mean that. It strengthens the truth of the quote. When you can look at the opposite part of it, you know. Well, thank you so much and, thank everybody out there, our listeners of the the Teach Different podcast. We’re going to have another quote up soon, of course, and Aaron, I really appreciate your time and I wish you the best of luck. 

 

Aaron Robinet (29:17) 

All right. Thank you, Steve. I thank you for having me on. I really enjoyed this. 

 

Steve Fouts (29:20)

Take care. 

 

Aaron Robinet (29:22)

You too.