“It isn’t where you come from; it’s where you’re going that counts.” Ella Fitzgerald – Goal Setting

Transcript

Dan Fouts  00:00

Hello, Steve and Dan Fouts here from Teach Different. We’re veteran teachers from the United States bringing educators together from around the world to learn a simple conversation method, which we model on this podcast for you. If you’re a teacher, administrator, or parent who wants to use the power of conversations to build stronger relationships and fight polarization, stay tuned to hear the impact our method can have on your discussions. Then join our Community of Educators at teachdifferent.com for additional resources and to participate in lively conversations among teachers and faculty, free for 30 days.

Dan Fouts  00:29

Welcome, everybody to the Teach Different podcast. This week, in celebration of Black History Month, we have a wonderful quote from Ella Fitzgerald, jazz singer and the queen of jazz. She has an interesting piece of wisdom on the theme of goal setting, which we’ll get to in a minute. Let’s first review our three step conversation method. We start with the claim of the quote, interpreting it in our own words, using our personal experiences. Personal testaments are key. Steve and I will be sharing some of those, and helping everyone visualize what students might say when you share this quote with them.  Then, we’ll work on the counterclaim. We’ll go against what Ella Fitzgerald is saying to create that necessary tension in a conversation. Once you build that tension, young people feel compelled to jump in to share their positions on whatever it is you’re talking about. We’ll end with an essential question. The more we use this method, the more we discover that these essential questions surface organically from the students through the conversation itself, so pay close attention. Let’s begin with Ella Fitzgerald’s quote on goal setting. “It isn’t where you come from; it’s where you’re going that counts.” “It isn’t where you come from; it’s where you’re going that counts.” Steve, what’s your first take on this?

Steve Fouts  02:34 – Claim

Look to the future. Set goals. Be hopeful. Don’t dwell on what’s happening. Well, actually, don’t dwell on what’s happened. That can mean so many things. Don’t think that all the accomplishments you’ve had in your life to this point mean as much as your next challenge. Do the same thing with failures. Don’t be thinking about all the things that you haven’t accomplished, and that you haven’t gotten respect for. Maintain a positive mindset, look toward the future while making tweaks to become better at what it is you’re focused on. So it’s a very positive quote. I think there are many different angles to take with the past. That was a little messy, but that’s what I’m getting from the quote.

Dan Fouts  04:01

Yeah, I like that. There are a lot of different ways to take this. Perhaps the students will think of their upbringing and where they come from. What kind of values and goals have been modeled at home? What important things have been communicated to them? Ella Fitzgerald seems to be saying that it’s not really about where you come from as much as it’s about looking ahead, and thinking about where you’re going. That is the most important thing. As you’re navigating through life you have to set goals. This is why I think we agreed that goal setting is a really important theme here. You have to set goals in the future because that’s ultimately what’s going to define who you are as a person.

Steve Fouts  04:57

Yeah, goals. I just thought of a student prompt to get the students to talk about something they can relate to and bring this quote down to earth. What came to mind was asking the students if anyone thinks a lot about something that happened in the past. This can get kind of delicate, because tragedies and unpleasant things that happen in our lives are the things that leave residue. They’re the things that are difficult for us to get over and think about sometimes. Keep that in mind when you use a prompt like this with your students. Ask them if there is anything that they find themselves focusing on. Maybe it’s a good thing. Maybe they hit the game winning shot two years ago when they were a fifth grader. Now they’re in middle school, but they keep thinking about that shot, and it puts a smile on their face. I’d like to hear from them as to what they focus on in the past, and maybe as a way to get the conversation started.

Dan Fouts  06:10

To build on that, you can ask what is it in the past that you can point to that has really shaped who you are as a person? They will want to talk about that. That is a good safe place to start. Conversely, what is a dream you have? What is something that you want in the future, a goal of yours that you do not have right now, but you’re moving towards? The follow up question is, what does that say about you if you want to go to college, into the trades, or the military? How does that goal define who you are? This can get them to introspect about what is more important, where they came from, or where they’re headed.

Steve Fouts  07:27

Yeah. You can ask older students about how the past shaped them. I’d break that down with younger students and talk about it from an experiential level. Ask them if they often think about the past, and if so, then what do they think about? Do they think about the future? 

Dan Fouts  08:09

A more general question you could ask to get this conversation moving is which is more important to you, your future or past? Get them to weigh the differences.

Steve Fouts  08:22

Which one do you think about more? We can kick the conversation off by taking a vote. Who thinks about the past more versus who thinks about the future more. That sounds like something for the younger crowd, but that could be a good icebreaker for any crowd.

Dan Fouts  08:40

Oh, that’d be great for my high school kids.

Steve Fouts  08:43

Yeah, that could be a good way to start this. She’s obviously saying that the future is what you need to be focused on. Whatever you’re focused on in the past, take note of it, but the future is going to get you somewhere. Let’s move to the counterclaim.

Dan Fouts  09:03

What is the counterclaim?

Steve Fouts  09:06 – Counterclaim

I’m going to say it without thinking. The past is more important, in a lot of ways, than your future. I haven’t built up my argument for that yet, but that’s my quickest response. When you’re focused in the past, you might be trying to understand who you are, and the decisions you’ve made – good, bad, or ugly. If we can raise our consciousness by focusing on the past, then we don’t have to worry about the future. We’re wise. We need to think about the new decisions we’re going to have to make, and we don’t want to make the same mistakes again. I’m trying to argue that if you’re only focused on the future, you might not be learning as much, and it might be an indication that you don’t accept who you are. 

Dan Fouts  10:13

You’re sitting around dreaming about what you don’t have.  That gets you into the mental habit of looking at your present and your past with distaste, like it’s something to avoid. I am not where I need to be. When kids are constantly fed that message, it ends up ruining their present, and that’s a problem. 

Steve Fouts  10:45

That is a really good point. If you’re in this constant state of I’m not where I want to be, that’s stressful. That’s something to take into account. I had a thought for another prompt, and it just escaped me, so if you have someone on your mind, share it.

Dan Fouts  11:19

It goes back to the theme of goal setting. When people are constantly setting goals in the future, they’re missing the present, and they’re not appreciating their past. I’m not convinced that’s healthy. I’m falling to the counterclaim, against what Ella Fitzgerald is saying. 

Steve Fouts  11:47

Here’s the picture that’s emerging. I sort of remembered what I was going to say. I hope it coalesces nicely. Sometimes we’re not ready to succeed. No matter how optimistic we are, sometimes our goals are out of reach for the moment. If there’s one thing that really kills the spirit of a kid, it’s when they have these bursts of enthusiasm and optimism, and then they are disillusioned. People who think about the past believe they’ve learned a lot and are wise, so don’t attempt to tackle goals that are unreachable. Those people are actually more content. They’re less worried about the future and getting somewhere. Something you could ask the kids is, has anyone been consistently disappointed trying to do something? Have there been difficulties that you can’t seem to get over? Are you tired of trying?

Dan Fouts  13:54

Are you tired of looking ahead is the question you’re asking. You’re tired of looking to the future as if it’s going to change. You have to accept the past, be comfortable with the present, and make that your mode. The pandemic has to come into this conversation. The pandemic has had an impact on kids goals for the future, and where they’ve come from. There has been an identity transformation. I’m sensing this, the more I’m in the classroom. Kids have been transformed. Adults are transformed. Everyone is. That’s another thing you could use as a tool to keep this conversation going. Get them to think about their experience. 

Steve Fouts  14:52

Has the pandemic changed your view on this quote? Does it make you want to side with or against Ella Fitzgerald? That would be very interesting. 

Dan Fouts  15:19

Do your students want to escape the past and the present to set goals in the future and focus there? Our school is definitely siding with that idea. We’re doing college planning, trying to help kids see a future. They have not been able to see a future. I think that follows Ella’s claim.

Steve Fouts  15:39

I’m going to get psychological. I’m going to be Dr. Phil on that one. You have to address what has happened. Whatever scars, new realizations, or identities that have evolved because of this pandemic, you have to face it. It’s what a psychologist would say. The future seems empty. The motivation is gone, but you can get it back when you understand what you’ve been through. I switch back to the counterclaim.

Dan Fouts  16:23

I’m pushing back on that. Here’s our conversation. If you get good at thinking to the future and hoping for something, then that crowds out these other traumatic issues. There’s a balance. You can’t completely fixate on the past. You have to make room for goals and future oriented things. This is a tough one.

Dan Fouts  16:25

But, you also can’t ignore the past, and start as if you’re a blank slate every day, that you haven’t learned anything. You can’t do that either.

Dan Fouts  17:12

“It isn’t where you come from; it’s where you’re going that counts.” I feel like we’re kind of in the middle here. It is where you come from to a certain degree, but it’s also where you’re going. It’s situational. Like everything, they’re very situational. I think kids at any age could look at this quote and have a conversation. If the teacher is able to bring these words down to a practical level, every human being has something to say about this.

Steve Fouts  17:47

I think self-awareness is another theme that could fit with this, because you will become more aware of how you process your reality. Do you focus on the past or the future?

Dan Fouts  18:04

That almost fits better than goal setting, because we’re talking about what shapes you. What’s more important, the past or the future? You have to be very aware of yourself to know that. 

Steve Fouts  18:18

Yeah, exactly. We are not conscious of that. 

Dan Fouts  18:24 – Essential Question

Well, this has been a great conversation. I think that this quote is applicable to any age student. A couple of questions actually emerged from this conversation. One of them was, is your future or past more important? I think that could be a really good essential question. What shapes or defines who you really are as a person could be another one. I bet some good ones will emerge when you have this conversation with your students. We tell teachers that before you have this conversation, give the quote to the kids in advance, maybe one day before, and ask the kids to write down a question they want answered from this conversation. They may come into the conversation with a really good one. 

Dan Fouts  19:26

From Ella Fitzgerald, the queen of jazz, “it isn’t where you come from; it’s where you’re going that counts.” Take care, everybody. We’ll see you next week. 

Steve Fouts  19:47

Take care, everybody. 

Dan Fouts  19:49

Thanks, everybody. We hope you’re walking away feeling energized by some great ideas, and have a sense of confidence that you too can master the art and science of conversations to make a lasting impact. We at Teach Different are dedicated to supporting you along that journey. Please visit teachdifferent.com to join our Community of Educators for additional resources and engaging discussion among fellow teachers and administrators, free for 30 days. We’ll see you there and next time on the Teach Different Podcast, take care!