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Steve Fouts 0:05
Hey everybody, Steve and Dan Fouts here. We are teaching different with American poet Theodore Roethke with a quote about perspective. “In a dark time the eye begins to see.” This quote is very thought provoking. There are a couple of words that seem to be symbols for something else. The word dark and eye begins to see. It’s clear that Roethke is saying something more than just these simple words. He’s referring to when things are bad, something bright can come from it, something positive.
Dan Fouts 0:57
Maybe perspective. I’m thinking, the eye, and the symbol of a perspective that you’re taking.
Steve Fouts 1:05
The eye can be used in different symbolic ways. I think one way to look at this is through intelligence and learning. What claim do you see Roethke making with this quote?
Dan Fouts: 1:20 – Claim
Yeah, I was thinking about the intelligence angle, too. In a difficult, suffering time the eye begins to see. You start noticing things. You use your mind to see lessons inside things that you didn’t see before. I think he’s putting a positive spin on what otherwise would be a very negative and depressing situation. We have a chance to learn from suffering in some way.
Steve Fouts 1:56
Yeah, there’s something that is acting against what you think is bad. There’s a good that’s coming out of it as the bad is happening. It’s very inspiring, actually.
Dan Fouts 2:10
Very much so. It makes me think about how to begin a conversation with students. Ask them to think about a time when they were going through something very difficult, but they learned something from it. They gained wisdom, understanding, or some realization from the difficult time. This could be a heavy conversation.
Steve Fouts 2:38
Yeah, this is a timing conversation. You’ll get a couple of students to step up on this one. It could get emotional. Just be very honest with this one.
Dan Fouts 2:52
Yeah, I agree. It could get emotional. As a teacher, you might want to have a few stories ready so you can share when you went through difficult times, and learned from it. This may help to lighten up the conversation if it gets too heavy.
Steve Fouts 3:06
That would help. It always helps when the teacher puts her/himself out there. What about a counterclaim to this?
Dan Fouts: 3:13 – Counterclaim
I’m going negative. In a dark time we lose hope and faith and the world is cruel. That isn’t necessarily bad. Sometimes there isn’t something to learn from a negative experience. It’s just negative and you get through it.
Steve Fouts 3:38
I would add that sometimes it takes time and perspective, to use the theme of this quote, to understand what you went through and what it meant to you. He’s saying that in a dark time, the eye begins to see. He’s saying that it’s happening while the bad is there.
Dan Fouts 4:05
That’s a good point.
Steve Fouts 4:06
I really think that it happens later for some people, and some people never understand it. They think the whole world is against them. I think the best counterclaim against this is that when we struggle we can’t always see. It isn’t always clear, and it isn’t always good at the time. It’s not mending itself or getting better.
Dan Fouts 4:36
It’s okay to not understand immediately.
Steve Fouts 4:43
That’s a student storytelling prompt. Have they ever gone through something that they aren’t quite over? There are things that you go through that stay with you, but you learn to live with it. That also teaches you coping skills, which isn’t a bad thing.
Dan Fouts 5:09
Yeah, and I was thinking of some of the things that the kids might bring up. Let’s say they do poorly in a class. When they go through the class and don’t do well, their eye doesn’t see the benefit, yet. It’s very negative. They might lose some confidence, they may not make a team that they’re trying out for, or they don’t get a scholarship. You could bring up some safe examples of them going through dark times, and not being able to see the learning from it.
Steve Fouts: 5:49 – Essential Question
Yeah, that’s a really good point. Here’s an essential question you could use to wrap up this conversation. This conversation could be a good one that the kids are going to remember. How do we know when to have hope?
Now, I’ve got a way to approach this for a curriculum connection. I’m going to take this idea of light and dark, and push it to see if we can find some connections in different types of curriculum. We’re looking at characters, historical events, or historical figures who had to go through dark times, but came out better because of it. You could do this in American history or English with characters in novels who had a difficult journey, but they came out of it better because of it. I’m thinking about what happens when you come into a dark room after being in the very bright sunshine. You can’t see anything for a while, because your eyes are dazzled, but your eyes begin to adjust to the dark. The dark is the catalyst for your eye to see things clearly, but you have to be in the dark for a while before that happens. I think you can ask the students to apply this analogy to some of the struggles of historical figures and story characters.
Dan Fouts 7:43
Let me jump in. The Civil War was a dark time for Abraham Lincoln, but slowly The eye began to see. This is a leadership thing. You could talk about how he started emerging as a great leader, seeing things and improving things moving forward.
Steve Fouts 8:07
Yeah, that’s an approach to take with it. Students will be able to relate to that. We hope you enjoyed Theodore Roethke with a quote about perspective. Make sure you visit our Conversation Library where we have many conversations like this, each with a different quote, a sample claim, counterclaim, and an essential question to get you started.
Take care, everybody. We will see you soon.
Dan Fouts 8:45
All right. Take care.
In this episode
Can suffering teach while it is happening, or must understanding wait? Steve and Dan Fouts consider a line from the American poet Theodore Roethke, "In a dark time the eye begins to see," and ask what darkness makes visible. For Dan the claim turns on learning, the mind noticing lessons inside hardship it could not see before. Steve hears something stronger: good acting against bad, even as the bad unfolds. The counterclaim is harder. Sometimes there is nothing to learn, only cruelty to endure, and some people never see meaning in what they survived. Steve suggests that understanding often comes later, if at all, and that living with what remains may teach coping more than clarity. The episode closes with a question for any student. How do we know when to have hope?
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About the quote
Theodore Roethke (1908 to 1963) opened one of his last poems with this line. He wrote through repeated breakdowns and made the darkness itself the thing he looked at rather than the thing he looked away from.