“ If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself.” – Teach Different with Henry Ford

Transcript

Dan Fouts (00:09)

Greetings, everybody. Welcome to the Teach Different Podcast. It’s actually Super Bowl Sunday, February 9th, 2025, and we’re doing a little podcast here in the morning before it. And we have an awesome guest, Michelle Epperson, who, full disclosure, is a former student of mine. From Maine West, Indus Plains rah, rah yes, yes. She’s got a really cool background in the corporate community and some other things that she’ll share with everyone when she talks about the quote with us. We have Henry Ford today, joining us, some wisdom from Henry Ford. A somewhat controversial historical figure in many ways, but he’s got some really good quotes that work nicely with the Teach Different Method, which for those unfamiliar, we’re going to take this profound quote, we’re going to unpack it, and we’re going to see what the claim of the quote is. We’re going to interpret it a little bit. We’re going to look at the counterclaim of the quote, push against it. Get those critical thinking juices flowing, and then any kind of personal experiences we can think about to connect with the quote, we can bring those up, this is free form. We’re going to make it work and ask questions throughout. And that’s really the method. That’s what we do. This method, by the way, is for everyone. This is for students. This is for adults. This is for anybody who’s looking for a healthy conversation where you’re connecting with other people. I mean, there are mental health benefits in addition to academic benefits to thinking and communicating this way. So, we’re really excited to be with everybody and here we go, Henry Ford. I’m going to say the quote twice and then Michelle is going to launch into her brilliance. No pressure, Michelle. If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself. If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself, Henry Ford. Michelle, welcome to the Teach Different Podcast. A little bit of your background, and then what do you think of the quote?

Michelle Epperson (02:21)

Yeah, no, I appreciate you guys having me, and of course, it’s really cool to be here just being in the classroom, you know, 10-ish years ago, and now we’re sitting here continuing these healthy, awesome, deep conversations. A little bit of my background is, I’m a corporate sales trainer. So my number one goal is to allow others to build their business, coach them on language and just relationship building, and that’s what truly fills my cup at the end of the day, is seeing others succeed. I may be a little biased, if you say, on this quote, just because when everyone is moving forward I do think success takes care of itself. One of the places I want to start is just bringing up the word synergy. I think that comes into play here. Synergy is even defined as an impact where you have this drive and this fuel. I’d say that’s the optimistic view of human nature is just coming together. You have an aligned action, as well as an aligned intention. So that’s kind of the beautiful things of humans is coming together, from there, we could take off. To define that even just a little more simply, it’s kind of like a pooled knowledge and pooled resources. Hence, you guys are the philosophy experts, if you will, on this journey. If you take your expertise there, my expertise here, we’re coming together and we’re creating a bigger impact.

Steve Fouts (03:44)

Love it. Synergy. I’m familiar with that word as well. I guess it’s aligned to the phrase the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I like that quote because it’s back to this quote, if you’re moving together, you kind of termed it, Michelle, if I heard you right, as that your goals and objectives are aligning. So when you have a group of people that are kind of headed in the same direction, they’re thinking about the same things, they’re doing it together, collaboratively, is the impression, right? Because you’re moving forward together, so you’re aware that other people are working toward the same thing. You’re working toward the same thing. You’re holding them accountable. They’re holding you accountable. And I’m just thinking of a team, Dan, I’m going to let you use the Chicago Bulls example, but just team sports in general, and success and championships, you have to work as a team. Okay, it’s kind of a catchall phrase but Dan, you were saying –

Dan Fouts (05:00)

I was talking to Steve right before the podcast, Michelle, and I immediately said, I got to talk about the Chicago bulls. I just watched one of the episodes in The Last Dance, which was a fantastic documentary on the Bulls’ championships. And when they really started clicking on all cylinders was when Phil Jackson, the coach, convinced the players, including, of course, Michael Jordan, who was such a superstar, that they all had to work together as a team through what they call the triangle offense, which does not put any undue influence of one player over the team, but the entire team kind of works as a unit and they have to kind of move together as a group and in that way, not to get too strategic here, because I’m not a basketball coach.

Yeah. But it made it very hard for the defense to zero in on any one player on the Bulls because they were all moving as a unit. And so I think that really fits this quote well. If everyone is moving forward together, success takes care of itself. You’re successful because you’re moving as a full unit.

Michelle Epperson (06:20)

I even was thinking of, in life, I believe we’re all given a gift, and its own journey to find what that gift may be but when coming together as a team, that’s the exciting piece where I have a gift, I get to act on it, maybe your gift is different than mine, hence the pooled resources. I even kind of picture very similar as a team, one of like our family’s life goal is to like own a homestead or like a farm, and you need all of these different players with their expertise to come together and, you know, make that come to fruition.

Steve Fouts (06:54)

I’m also looking at this word success. These are very simple words here, but they’re actually things to unpack if you really want to try to get a sense of what he’s meaning here. Because a word like success, people define that word differently. Some people, I think of success as primarily a personal achievement. Kind of an intrinsic value, intrinsic motivations, intrinsic kind of realizations or inner peace, and you define success by how happy you are as a person. And these are all like valid definitions. But when I look at this quote, if everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself. My read on this is that this isn’t an external success. This is a success that you measure as something that you can only achieve with others. It’s not a personal gratification or a personal sense of happiness. Are you both with me on that? I’m just pointing it out. Cause I think that’s gonna get us ready for maybe a counterclaim.

Michelle Epperson (08:14)

I was going to say that’s exactly what I have as a counterclaim.

Steve Fouts (08:18)

I go right into it. I mean, yeah.

Dan Fouts (08:21)

I think real quick, I think that you’re saying collective then,  if I’m understanding you right, Steve, you’re saying the success as it’s defined in this quote, if everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself, that it’s more of a collective success.

Steve Fouts (08:37)

I think.

Dan Fouts (08:39)

Okay. Because I think, to push back a little bit, I think the individual success could be coinciding with the collective success. So I don’t really see it as one thing or the other. I have a really quick personal story. Actually, Michelle, it involves you and your final project in philosophy 10 years ago.I have to bring this up. I’m sorry. It’s so good.

Michelle Epperson (09:02)

No, I love it.

Dan Fouts (09:03)

What she did in her final project, I have the students in philosophy come up with some project at the end of the year where they combine everything they learn about philosophy and share it with the class in the final project. Michelle’s final project was, she identified a quality or some sort of skill that every single student in the class showed throughout the semester, and her final project was to acknowledge every single student in class. It was incredible. And this makes me actually think of this quote because that’s seeing the success of the class as a collective success, not just an individual student being successful. Had to bring that up. It was beautiful, Michelle.

Michelle Epperson (09:53)

Yeah. I appreciate that. I didn’t even really put two and two together for the quote of that, but a hundred percent. I appreciate you bringing that up.

Steve Fouts (10:01)

And you’ve carried that right into your profession, Michelle. You know, you’ve got to identify strengths in salespeople, right? And they all have different strengths. So, their approaches, you have to be adaptable to that. You have to have maybe a team goal and some structures and systems that everyone should follow to put them in the position of being successful. People are different and you’ve got to acknowledge it.

Michelle Epperson (10:33)

That’s why I appreciate Teach Different’s, like, get just your organization of having a claim counterclaim. Let’s question it. You’re doing the very same thing, not only for individuals, but for a company, you know, for a business, they have different objections that you may have to handle and really relate back to them and why it’s important that they may do X, Y, and Z.

Then the cycle continues, maybe there’s a new concept, new idea, same client, but you have to rework through everything. Truly philosophy is in everything. That’s the journey.

Steve Fouts (11:06)

Yeah, absolutely. It, because this is philosophy, you know, wink, wink, but this quote, I mean, it is the more you look at something, the more you find in it. And I’m going to throw out another quick idea that might actually connect us to a counterclaim as well. We’ve been flirting with that, but this motivation, the thing that’s motivating people to work together. My experience has been, I’ve been in a professional setting, like as a teacher. I remember, I’m not in the classroom now, I haven’t been in the classroom for like six years. But I remember the administration always trying to get our academic department to work together, to move together, to do things together. And at times it felt that it was someone else’s desire. And it wasn’t my own motivation just to simply work with other people. I got along with them great, and I enjoyed my colleagues, but working together is not easy. You have to rely on people. You can’t just assume that you’re going to be the one that’s going to be doing everything and you’ve got to take care of everything. You have to put faith and trust in people. And when they aren’t there, which is what happens sometimes. My goodness, that can ruin your day as a teacher. Like if I’m not prepared for a class because I was supposed to team teach with someone and they weren’t ready. All of a sudden, I’m slipping into the gear of I gotta do this on my own. I can be really effective on my own. So I’m moving to the counterclaim. Personal success is an internal, personal, individualistic thing and when you are successful yourself, and when you’re motivated for the right reasons, and you want your own success, what you should do is find other people that want their own for themselves as well, and then you got a team. Okay, but you’re not necessarily aligned to the same objectives, but you have a team of go getters and motivated people.

Michelle Epperson (13:48)

I think taking that idea, that’s when like groupthink comes into play. When you have a group of a bunch of people like, oh, Sally’s doing all the work here. We’re in good hands. I believe in her. I’m just going to hang tight here. You just kind of begin to have a status quo. And I think really defining success that’s kind of you need to break that mold. To bring in 1 other quote that kind of connects. I may butcher it. Don’t they say like, insanity is the definition of repeatedly doing the same thing that’s getting you nowhere, well, sometimes we see that in a group setting where it’s kind of, hey, we need to break the mold to see the success. One more layer to that quote, that’s very similar, that I actually recently saw a few days ago. It was one of those LED signs and it was well behaved women rarely make history. I just thought that was very fitting. Just cause it gets you to speak up more. I’ve noticed even since reading it, I’ve been sitting with my team at work and, you know, just kind of putting an idea out there. What’s the worst that can hurt? We could talk through it just like we’re doing right now.

Dan Fouts (14:52)

That’s great. You know, Michelle, I had a question just thinking about what you said and your role as a corporate trainer. How do you break groupthink?

Michelle Epperson (15:04)

That’s a great question. I’ve even been seeing it, especially when we have designated per se, like dialing time for them to be on the phone. If I notice that no one is making calls, no one is making calls. They’re like, oh, it’s okay. We’re all just doing no work on the very opposite when I’m also leading by example, I’m making my own calls. I’m connecting with my businesses. They kind of see, oh, you know, that’s not even per se her job, but she’s doing this. She’s going out of her way. I’m going to also jump on the phone and do what I need to do and connect with people. So I say it always starts with leading by example, or truly I can be very direct. I’ll be like, hey, my number one job is to hold you accountable, see you succeed, you know what you need to do to get that done, and just being transparent and direct, if you will.

Dan Fouts (15:55)

And, you know, the kind of building on what Steve said and what you said, that some people work better individually. That they need a creative space to show their genius, you know, and so when other people are teaming up, it’s not that they don’t want to be part of a team, but they feel like they’re not at their best unless they’re doing things by themselves and then plugging in and in different ways and they just resist group think almost in their DNA. And I would imagine, Michelle, that it’s important to identify people on your team who are really good working alone and need that space and can’t, you know, do that. I see that in my department at school. I definitely am someone who I like to work alone. I like to be part of a team, I also like the individual work and space to come up with ideas on my own and then come together. And I guess I do, I am breaking the groupthink more than I realize. Maybe to my detriment sometimes, to be honest, I’ll just be self reflective. Maybe it’s not good sometimes that I do that. This really is making me think.

Steve Fouts (17:16)

You’re making me think too, because I’m – yeah, go ahead, Michelle.

Michelle Epperson (17:21)

Oh no, I was, I’m now just kind of thinking the very same thing, what I do in my role. But I think the success also comes in the recognition that is key. You can bring up even like love languages, how you communicate with others. It’s important to understand what the others communication style is and how they, you know, respectfully, kind of, not per se value themselves, but again, communication. That’s why even when I start building my team, I give them a little questionnaire, very similar to like, a disc assessment where I really understand their communication style and how I can personalize that experience for them. For instance, one really likes public recognition. So, you know, you put slides on the board, you kind of shout out to the team, hey, so and so has five meetings this week. That’s great. But also I’ll respect the other people that you know, kind of go in their office space, make their calls. I know they’re productive in getting it done. So, just respecting that is key.

Steve Fouts (18:17)

It’s always a balance. You want to recognize people, but you also don’t want to just get other people demoralized for unneededly, right. All right. Yeah.

Michelle Epperson (18:28)

I think that actually one quick point to that, the demoralization, I think kind of reiterating the quote once more. If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself, bringing it to an individual perspective. I think you almost need to see the failure to grow as an individual to know what you need to change. You could almost put it as like the yin and the yang. You have to see the good and the bad. You know, if we understand what success looks like, we have to understand what not success looks and feels like as well.

Steve Fouts (18:58)

Yeah, that and that’s a tough lesson, but important. We’ve got good quotes on failure is a chance to start again intelligently. Is that, did Ford say that one again? Did Ford do that again, didn’t he? That

Dan Fouts (19:13)

That might have been Ford actually. Failure is a chance to begin again more intelligently. Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle Epperson (19:19)

He made his own counterclaim to this.

Steve Fouts (19:22)

You know, he, and because, how about this? I rewrote this ’cause I’m still kind of starting to think of the counterclaim a little bit. If everyone has a role model, then success takes care of itself. If everyone can see an individual can succeed and they respect and admire an individual. What you end up doing is watching a person and that’s what motivates you internally. It’s not so much that the group is getting anywhere. It’s that, hey, this one person is this successful? And they do this. I’m going to watch that and copy it and I’m going to get success. I think that may be another formula here for success. Maybe a counterclaim.

Dan Fouts (20:18)

Definitely in the same way, Michelle, you might acknowledge someone’s really cool strategy that they use that worked and highlight that and have everyone else watch it and have the person really feel good that they were recognized and everyone will then light up with their own ideas and how to incorporate that idea. So, yeah, I agree, Steve. That’s not really, well, yeah, of course. That’s not really teamwork, but it could also lead to success because of an individual talent being revealed.

Steve Fouts (20:50)

Well, and it can also lead to insecurity. I’m doing the counterclaim of the counterclaim. Like Jordan being a role model, other people don’t have his skill sets and probably his work ethic on some level. Although that is something you can role model. But it can intimidate people as well. Some people need to be on a, more of a groupthink, or a team a little bit to get that support to move the tide lifting everyone. It doesn’t always motivate people. Sometimes it really just makes him feel like I can’t do this. I’m not him. I’m not her.

Dan Fouts (21:33)

Who’s got a question? I have a question, actually, that comes from this. It’s pretty simple, but it’s one that is relevant and relatable, I think, and that is, how do I know when to follow the group and when to be an individual and go out on my own to achieve success? How do I know? ‘Cause I think both can get us there. How do I know when to follow the group and when to follow my own individual talents to achieve success?

Steve Fouts (22:16)

Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle Epperson (22:21)

You guys are making me think all over. I’m even thinking of morals, ethics, and values, and that’s like a question you could continue to ask yourself in the group as well. What morals, ethics, values are most important to me to gain the success? I kind of set boundaries with that question, is more or less what I’m trying to phrase that towards. What are the boundaries towards my goal that I will do to achieve the status?

Steve Fouts (22:50)

Because some people don’t have boundaries. If the ends justify the means, right? That’s a good question. That’s a really good question. Mine was, it has to do with trust and faith in other people. Something like, how do I know I should be trusting the process or the group? When it’s not going fast enough, there aren’t people working as hard as I am. We’re not succeeding as a group and I’m getting thrown into it. My morale is suffering. How do I know that I need to stay with the program or that I need to find another context where I could be more successful?

Dan Fouts (23:52)

A cousin to that question might be, when is groupthink dangerous to my interests? When does groupthink elevate my interests and talents? When is working as an individual, a danger to my success?

Steve Fouts (24:13)

Well, there is a question. Can I ask this question to both of you for personal experiences? When have you had an experience where you have actually been part of a group that achieves something and you really realized at the end that you never could have done this on your own? And you really did appreciate the fact that you were on a team and you were moving together with other people. I’m trying, I’m thinking myself.

Dan Fouts (24:46)

I got to go back to. Michelle’s philosophy class. The success of that class was impossible without thinking about it in a holistic way. It was not about individual accomplishments. It was about an entire class being uplifted. So the feeling I think, well, this is the feeling I had. I don’t want to speak for other people’s feelings in the class. There was something bigger. There was something larger. That was created and elevated and celebrated in that group that speaks to what you just said, Steve.

Steve Fouts (25:27)

Do you remember that class? It was 10 years ago.

Dan Fouts (25:30)

Oh, yeah. I totally. Well, I remember it as Michelle’s final project makes me remember it. Oh,

Michelle Epperson (25:38)

yeah, because yeah, just highlighting each individual.

Dan Fouts (25:41)

Yeah, I don’t remember all the names.

Michelle Epperson (25:48)

That’s phenomenal. No, I’m –

Steve Fouts (25:49)

Are you thinking of anything, Michelle? Is anything –

Michelle Epperson (25:53)

Yeah, I think the number one thing that comes to mind is mostly, I have a couple things whoo! I’m just thinking of, we could even rewind 10 years ago, I’m thinking of how our dance team went to state, you know, that hasn’t happened of Main West’s history, if you will, at that given point. So we got to go to state and yes, we each put the work in individually, but it goes back to that team sport and that team concept of I can put the work in day in and day out, but without coming together to reiterate choreography and timing. I truly say timing is a virtue. Timing is everything, especially in dance. We could all do the dance moves, but it looks nothing worthy without, you know, the coordination and the timing. And so that kind of uplifts you and reminds yourself, hey, there’s a reason why I woke up at 6 a.m. every day or even fast forwarding now, like 10 years. To the present, I’ve done bodybuilding competitions. So taking things to that next level, I’m in charge of my own success. You know, no one’s making me eat chicken and rice every day and, you know, go run three miles, but you have that bigger image, that vision in a sense you do get to come together with a community and a team, you know, online coach, support groups. Whether it’s truly physically in person or now given technology in the day to day, you could find that community and that success anywhere, I’d say.

Steve Fouts (27:23)

Yeah, you did bodybuilding Michelle.

Michelle Epperson (27:28)

Yeah, it was a good a mental exercise. I will say that’s why I did it. Discipline is the main thing that I’ve learned.

Steve Fouts (27:35)

Yeah, and I mean the theme I’m noticing when it comes to anything physical, teams, you know, dancing, great example. How about synchronized swimming? There’s an example of something that has to be moving together because if you don’t move together, there is no success but it’s sports. I think is a really common, I guess, application of this quote. And then the philosophy class is more conceptual, obviously. Yeah.

Michelle Epperson (28:08)

Or go into that flow state, though. Like your individual flow, but then it kind of goes into like a groupthink and a group flow.

Steve Fouts (28:14)

That’s perfect. Right there.

Dan Fouts (28:20)

A family could operate that way, maybe at its best.

Steve Fouts (28:25)

Okay. Yeah.

Dan Fouts (28:27)

It could fit there.

Steve Fouts (28:32)

Of course. What is that? Yeah, that’s interesting. A family. What would hold it together that represents moving forward? Probably just love.

Dan Fouts (28:39)

Yeah. When some people have a list of values, you know, their family has a group of values that they all buy into or a way of behaving, a way of treating people. Michelle brought up ethics before I think in a family ethics, whether stated or not becomes a little bit of the unifying glue of a family.

Steve Fouts (29:01)

Right. And obviously some families don’t keep together. As individuals break off, they become different. They realize they’re different, what have you. Okay.

Michelle Epperson (29:16)

I think that reiterates, Dan, when I was in your classroom a few weeks ago, I mentioned, you know, like, I’m pregnant, we’re starting our own family and we’re excited to see who little one will be. But I said that, you know, your baby will essentially pass through you. It’s not an entity of my husband and it’s going to be its own being. And that’s what you have to know and appreciate and understand their gifts are maybe different than ours. And really just supporting that and finding the beauty in that. That goes back to one of our claims of just, you know, acting on your gifts coming to that pooled resource, so–

Steve Fouts (29:55)

Wow. Congratulations.

Michelle Epperson (29:57)

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Steve Fouts (29:58)

That’s so great. You got a big few months ahead.

Michelle Epperson (30:02)

Yes.

Dan Fouts (30:02)

Yeah. We talked about how, you know, in honoring the individual in this new child coming into the world, the success will also be dependent on how much maybe you, we honor the individuality and not just the whole family. So again, we’re back to the claim and counterclaim. This is great. Does anybody have any other questions or angles on this. Did we give good balance? Yeah, good balance to the claim and counterclaim. I feel like we did.

Steve Fouts (30:35)

I think we did. I do have a thought. I just have one last thought here about how can you create a situation where you’re giving individuals so much freedom and trust and faith that they end up wanting to be in a group with others like them. You have the perfect balance. People never feel like they’ve got to move with the group. They think they’re moving on their own and they’re motivated by their own personal success, but they have that appreciation that they couldn’t do that if they weren’t part of this larger group of people that were like minded and gave them that space. There’s something perfect in there. I don’t know what it is. Some perfect balance, but that was –

Dan Fouts (31:30)

There you go, there’s the question. What is the perfect balance between working amongst the group and also honoring individual talents and abilities? What does that perfect balance look like? Well, fantastic. Mike drop question. This has been great, Michelle. I think this was the right quote for us. With your background and our experiences, we navigated it, I think, effortlessly. So great choice on the quote, Henry Ford. And I got to get it again to make sure we like to say it one more time. If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself. I hope everybody enjoyed this conversation and you download it and share it with others and keep the conversations going. It is good for our brains in so many ways. So thank you so much again, Michelle, and take care.

Steve Fouts (32:38)

Thank you.