“I don’t like that man, I must get to know him better.” – Teach Different with Unknown Author

Transcript

Dan (00:10)

Welcome everybody to the Teach Different podcast. We are back, ready to do some more critical thinking and empathy and listening and all the other really soft skills. They call them soft skills, which I feel like doesn’t do justice to the skills that you learn in conversations. Really what you learn in communicating with one another is skills that are incredibly valuable for society. So I don’t know, I just don’t even like calling them soft skills. They’re so darn important, but we’re gonna practice them today with again, another quote, and we have one, it’s one of those apocryphal quotes, I hope I’m pronouncing that right, quotes that are usually attributed to somebody, but actually nobody has full evidence or record that it actually was said by the person. We have another one of those today. This one is attributed to Abraham Lincoln. And it’s about getting to know people. And very interesting. But we’ll get to that in a moment. The method itself, after we do this quote, we’re going to interpret it. We’re going to do the claim. We’re going to go against it, do a little counterclaim, ask some questions, and then hopefully out of this experience, become a little bit more sensitive and wise about how we speak with one another and how we interact and what we can get from that. Anything else, Steve, what’s on your mind before we jump into this?

 

Steve (01:49)

state of the world. But the divisive, you know, it’s all divisive and the polarization and I mean, the quote is fitting because.

 

Dan (01:51)

State of the world, how is it? Good or bad? Yeah.

 

Steve (02:03)

I don’t know, there aren’t many people out there that want to talk to people they don’t like. And I got to admit, even thinking of myself, sometimes I don’t want to spend the energy. You know, if someone’s not on the same page, I’d rather just kind of focus on my own things. It’s probably human nature to do that. But I like this quote because

 

Dan (02:28)

Let’s get it. I’ll say it a few times and then we’re gonna jump into it. So here we go. I don’t like that man, I must get to know him better.I don’t like that man, I must get to know him better. So what is this, you have an angle on this. What does this make you think?

 

Steve (02:53)

It’s fighting a human nature. It’s saying that when you don’t like someone, when you don’t wanna talk to them, when you don’t wanna really understand the world from their perspective, you’re caught up in their outward behavior towards you. The quote saying that’s the signal that you need to get to understand this person. I must get to know them because and here is definitely the truth. The more you get to know someone, the harder it is to have strong feelings, negative feelings toward them. Maybe that’s not true, okay? I’ll take a counterclaim against that. But I’m gonna say in a lot of cases, the people we think we’re not gonna like, if we end up just talking to them and we realize that they’re closer to us than we originally thought, or they have a part of human nature that you kind of understand better the more you get to know them, it’s hard to keep the anger up. Anger gets replaced by understanding. Understanding naturally dissolves anger, I think. And that’s the power of the quote.

 

Dan (04:10)

Yeah. Yeah, I don’t like that man. I must get to know him better. So the claim, the assumption is that with knowledge comes understanding and empathy and perspective that anger and dislike is a function of ignorance of people. That’s the assumption it’s making. it’s interesting. It’s almost like the person

 

Steve (04:30)

Ignorance.

 

Dan (04:38)

who said this, even if anyone said this, we don’t even exactly know if an actual person said this, but the sentiment is, you know, I don’t like that man, I must get to know him better. There’s almost like this internal obligation that this person is saying that, well, of course, if I don’t like the person, I just got to get to know him better. And then if I get to know him better, then I’ll like the person. It has an interesting, curious,

 

Steve (05:04)

Yeah, you got to read something into it. I must get to know him. I read it and it might be because I originally saw that it was attributed to Abraham Lincoln. So I already have Abraham Lincoln in my head when I read the quote, you know, I don’t like someone. I must get to know them. This is what Lincoln was all about. He would embrace whatever the counterclaim he would.

 

Dan (05:07)

Yeah, you really do.

 

Steve (05:34)

hire his opponents and put them on his cabinet. He would take those public relations baths during the Civil War where people would just come in and vent. And he knows the power of allowing people to do that and getting to know people because the anger that they’re having maybe toward him is going to reduce. I think if he’s there and listening to them and vice versa. I mean, I think that he used that as a tactic.

 

Dan (06:06)

Yeah, and you mean he embraces the claim. You said he embraced the counterclaim.

 

Steve (06:12)

Well, when I said counterclaim, was, you’re right. don’t want to confuse this with the way we’re going to do the method in a moment. What I meant to say was he embraces the opposite view. He embraces the antagonism of other people. He doesn’t estrange and alienate people that he doesn’t like. He wants to draw closer to them.

 

Dan (06:14)

Is that what you’re saying?

 

Steve (06:39)

He wants to understand more. He’s not a polarizing person.

 

Dan (06:44)

Right, right. So that, so I can understand why Lincoln gets wrapped up with this quote. People would say, I don’t like this man. I must get to know him better. Well, that sounds like something Lincoln would say and believe wholeheartedly that, all right, this is a person that, I don’t get along with. I just need to get closer to them. And then if I get to know the person, then I can work with them and I’m not afraid of that.Yeah, I can understand why Lincoln would be associated with this, but you think of any, I think, great leader who expresses a life that’s consistent with the sentiment of this quote, I don’t like that man, I must get to know him better. know, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., for instance, would perhaps say, okay, there’s an enemy, let’s get to know them, let’s engage them, let’s get closer to them, let’s not write them off, let’s love them. Right, right, right. So there’s that sentiment as well.

 

Steve (07:42)

love them even though they’re mistreating us. That’s not easy. I don’t wanna go to the counterclaim yet. No, not yet, not yet. I wanna talk about the second inaugural just to point out that the reason I think that a quote like this is attributed to Lincoln is because of his behavior when he treat, how he treated the South after the Civil War. You know, the widow and his orphan, you know, he was talking to both sides.

 

Dan (07:52)

No. Go, go to the counter. Why not?

 

Steve (08:18)

He was not a divisive figure and they’re whatever you want to call it the adult in the room. They’re the people that I think we should be worshiping and venerating. Okay. I just wanted to get my two cents in there, but I’m, willing to go to the counter claim and disagree with this.

 

Dan (08:33)

Well, he was divisive though, I gotta say that Lincoln was incredibly divisive.

 

Steve (08:38)

Okay. That’s okay. Go for that. You know, I was talking about specifically near the end of his life. you know,

 

Dan (08:46)

He did make a lot of friends in the South or many people in the South thought of him in an admirable way. I mean, obviously he was hated from the very beginning and was hated through the Civil War and was hated to the very end. And some people rejoiced with his assassination. But I know what you meant. I know what you meant. 

 

Steve (09:12)

Well, he’s a tyrant. People call him a tyrant.

 

Dan (09:13)

Well, right, people thought he was a tyrant. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, counterclaim, I don’t like that man. I must get to know him better. Well, if you don’t like someone, write them off. Don’t get to know them. Just cut your losses, conserve your energy and move on.

 

Steve (09:37)

Why spend energy?

 

Dan (09:39)

What? Yeah.

 

Steve (09:41)

But I’m gonna go right to an essential question that will flush this out. And that’s that. It depends on why you don’t like them. And I’ll work up the essential question later, but for right now, let me just say this. If it’s someone you know, and you’ve known them for a while and you’re seeing a pattern in their behavior, and you look at their actions and you’re really just not liking them. They’re bringing you down. That’s someone maybe to cut off. Right? But if it’s someone who just you know, maybe bumped into you inadvertently in the DMV line and they said something or looked a certain way and you don’t like them. Like stop yourself. You know, okay, I don’t want to go to the claim, but to me, it depends on who this person is. And it’s very contextual. The counterclaim is that there are some people to cut off.

 

Dan (10:43)

Yeah, it depends on what the person has done to you. What is the source of your anger? What is the source of your dislike of the person? Have they betrayed you multiple times? Well, then you don’t need to get to know them better. The problem is you know them too much. You know them too accurately. yeah, you don’t suffer fools. But if it’s…

 

Steve (11:00)

Yeah, you’re the fool.

 

Dan (11:07)

If it’s someone you just started, let’s say working with, and they’re saying things that you don’t like, and you don’t really know their character very much, give them a chance a little bit. I get to know them a little better, try to appreciate their perspective might be the wise course. So I agree, it really depends, yeah.

 

Steve (11:26)

The claim. Yeah, no, and I would even argue people that you’ve known for a long time, like 30 years old, 30, 30 year relationship, let’s say a friendship you’ve had with someone. And because of the divisiveness of the current political environment, you might be less inclined to go and talk to them. You might be thinking about what they are saying in your dull moments and getting kind of angry and agitated. And maybe that is a cue, hey, you got someone that knows you for 30 years, if there’s ever a person that could handle a question or two to try to understand, spend it toward that person. They already have, you know, they’ve already banked a friendship with you.

 

Dan (12:15)

Yeah, yeah.

 

Steve (12:20)

But there’s still a counterclaim, let these people go. If you don’t like them, it kind of depends on who you are as a person. Like if you’re a likable person and you’re a nice person and you could objectively call yourself that, I think that if you don’t like someone, that’s a sign. You know, don’t cut yourself short. If you have an open heart and you can notice people who just are not likable and they’re not likable around you, but you’re a good person and you’re like, you know, you’re a likable person. Man, that’s a sign. Don’t try to understand them. Just say, hey, I’ll pray for them or something. Like let him go.

 

Dan (13:05)

So a good essential question then, when do know when to cut off people and when do you know when to stick with them and believe in them?

 

Steve (13:15)

How do you know when to cut off people? That’s great.

 

Dan (13:17)

Yeah, how do you know when people are worthy of your attention and love? know, and how? That’s a tough one.

 

Steve (13:30)

Yeah.

 

Dan (13:31)

Because you’re gonna, every day, you’re gonna confront, be confronted with people you like, dislike, or are indifferent to, and you really have to make that choice. Do you invest? You know, because if you invest in everyone, you’re not gonna have anything left. You can’t invest all your curiosity and energy into everyone.

 

Steve (13:51)

And you can’t understand, right, you can’t understand everyone either.

 

Dan (13:55)

Yeah, so how do you make decisions on who is worthy of your attention and care and who is not? I don’t like that man. I must get to know him better. It’s almost like an obligation this is saying in this claim. I got to get to know you better.

 

Steve (14:10)

This is great. This is great. Well, this is, I mean, this is good. Like we should talk about a couple of our projects. Let our listeners know like what we’re involved in. I, I have to share the one out in California where I’m trying to work with actually the California middle school principal of the year, Terry Daniels. And we’re trying to organize some community conversations using the teach different method in of a city called Folsom, California. And we’re just excited to do it. What we’re going to do is we’re going to research quotes from the tribes, the Native American tribes from that area, and bring in some of these quotes into these community conversations. And we’ll have it at the library, maybe the school, maybe some other centers. And can you imagine just

the community discussing some of these powerful Native American quotes and it really uplifts and does justice to the native people of that land. So I’m excited about that one. Why don’t you talk about the Department of Human Services, the Illinois one we just got.

 

Dan (15:22)

Great, yeah, we just got our second project funded with the Illinois Department of Human Services where we are going to be taking the Teach Different method and promoting it statewide through our teacher certification program. We have an awesome certification program now remote where teachers can learn this method on a step-by-step basis during a six to eight week period. And this grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services is gonna allow us to deploy this method all over the state in different environments. Illinois is an interesting state in that it has a high urban population in the Chicagoland area, but most of Illinois is very rural. We have an opportunity to show how this method can be utilized in all types of

 

areas and that’s just that’s that’s exciting. So that’s the second year we’ve we’ve gotten that and that’s going to take us all across the state of Illinois. So awesome.

 

Steve (16:34)

It’s exciting, you know, it’s it’s finally blossoming a bit, right? I mean, just to get people to understand what the method is and then it’s so adaptable and flexible once you learn it. And we’re also creating a homeschool curriculum. I’ll say that one before we go here. We’re creating a curriculum for parents, all right? And it’s gonna be kind of like a course that you can take on your own. That’ll be a way that you can learn a little bit more about Teach Different and the method. And then we’re going to be making some curriculum that can help you just plan out lessons for an entire year, all different age groups. And we’re going to incorporate conversations in a lot of what we teach. Because we think, we talked about this, Dan, the holy grail of teaching are having these conversations, being able to talk and communicate with who it is your learner is, you can address discipline with it. You can get really good feedback about how they’re learning and whether they’re getting understanding what you’re teaching them and all kinds of other benefits. Yes.

 

Dan (17:41)

and help them feel like they belong, help students feel like they belong in the classroom and they’re accepted and that they have a voice. This is the, I mean, holy grail, I really liked that way of saying it, that you get the conversation piece right and you’re an educator or you’re a parent and you get so much in life that’s right. It is so important, this kind of communication. And that’s what

 

Steve (17:50)

Yep.

 

Dan (18:08)

That’s what this method is all about. It’s about teaching that and it’s not a soft skill. This is a really, really important skill, necessary. It’s absolutely.

 

Steve (18:18)

Necessary skill, communication skill. It really is a communication skill.

 

Dan (18:23)

It is. It is. And the more we use this method, the more we start seeing people differently, speaking with them differently, caring about people in healthy ways. And just having that dialogue, the civil dialogue that has been lost, there’s so many benefits, so many benefits. Holy grail, I’m sticking with that.

 

Steve (18:45)

Beautiful. We’ll come back to that one.

 

Dan (18:48)

Okay, all right. Well, thanks everybody and hope you enjoy this this quote again, not really an author but one that again you could you could use this in a lot of different settings. I don’t like that man. I must get to know him better. Try it out and we’ll see you next time.

 

Steve (19:06)

All right.