“Disobedience is the foundation of liberty.” Henry David Thoreau – Civil Disobedience

Transcript

Steve Fouts: 0:02 

Hey everybody, Steve and Dan Fouts here. We are teaching different with  transcendentalist Henry David Thoreau with a quote about civil disobedience.  “Disobedience is the foundation of liberty.”  The two big words in this quote are disobedience and liberty. Foundation is also an interesting word, because it refers to the essential definition of freedom. Thoreau is talking about what it means to not follow the rules and to disagree with authority, which is connected somehow to individual freedom, the choices you have. America prides itself on giving citizens the freedoms that other countries don’t have. Thoreau is pointing out that there’s a connection between freedom and disobeying. What claim would you say he’s making in this quote? 

Dan Fouts: 1:17 – Claim

The quote reads that disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. I think he’s essentially saying that going against the rules is the only way to be free.  He’s confining the definition of freedom to the idea that you have to go against a rule. In terms of a conversation, you can get the kids to share examples of when they disobeyed rules, and did it give them a sense of liberty and freedom.  When students disobey rules, they usually don’t feel free, they feel afraid because they went against authority. Thoreau is suggesting that you should have a positive feeling of freedom when you go against the rules. I’d like to hear what interesting examples students will bring up.  

Steve Fouts: 2:20

Yeah, I think that’s exactly the tack to take to get this conversation going. I think getting into the motivations of why students break the rules is something else to explore. Some students will break the rules, because they don’t agree with the rule. They’re doing it for ethical reasons. They believe the rule is wrong.  While other students will admit that sometimes they just want to go against the rules. They’re tired of looking at everybody going along and conforming to something and they want to step out, express their individuality. They may even agree with the rule, but they want to show that they have the ability to not follow it. Get the students to talk about what motivates them to not go along with rules. 

Dan Fouts: 3:22 

In other words, you’re unpacking the definition of disobedience.  What kind of disobedience? Are you talking about disobedience with intent, you just want to go against something or disobedience because you truly believe a law or rule is wrong?  

Steve Fouts: 3:42 

Yeah, that’d be good. That gets into the ethics of this. I’m thinking of our Albert Einstein conversation where he said you should never go against your  conscience. Disobeying authority is justified, because you shouldn’t go against your conscience. Einstein, in his quote, is giving a hitching post to why you should disobey rules, but Thoreau is more general with his quote. I wonder if they would agree or whether they would get into a good conversation. Let’s push back against this.  What’s a good counterclaim to this quote? 

Dan Fouts: 4:37 – Counterclaim

We’ll take the opposite view here. Maybe we could say that obeying the rules is an expression of freedom, because when you’re obeying the rules, you’re making a free choice that the rule that you’re obeying is in your best interest or is in society’s best interest. You’re choosing to follow it. That sounds like freedom to me.  

Steve Fouts: 5:06 

We all have choices, and some of us conform. Some of us don’t break rules. We follow laws. Are we less free than others who break rules, or are we just as free? We’ve made different ethical choices. 

Dan Fouts: 5:28 

Why wouldn’t we be free to conform to rules? How is that any different than being free to go against the rules? 

Steve Fouts : 5:38 

Exactly.  I think this is perfect for something like social distancing.  During this COVID crisis, we are expected to distance ourselves from each other and to wear masks in public, like when we go into grocery stores. These are rules that were placed on us, and we had no idea they were coming. We make a choice as to whether or not we want to follow them, or not. Are people who want to follow those rules to keep other people safe by staying away from them and wearing masks expressing their freedom?  I think asking the students that question, and getting them to decide if freedom always has to be disobeying something, or whether it can truly be a choice to conform to rules.

Dan Fouts: 6:45

Oh, yeah. You can bring it to a local level with the school dress code. It’s the  same dynamic, either you follow the dress code, or you don’t. You are free to conform, and free to disobey and challenge it.  After 911, all the students in my school had to wear IDs for about eight years, which they interpreted like a dress code that they had to obey. 

Steve Fouts: 7:19 – Essential Question

I do like the dress code idea. I was in Chicago public schools and they had school uniforms. It was everywhere. I remember talking to a few students about the rule, and if they liked it. Some of them liked it, because they didn’t have to think about what they were going to wear.  They didn’t have to compare themselves to what other students were wearing. They like the simplicity of just getting up and putting on the same thing every day.  They were happy to choose to follow that rule. 

Here’s an essential question you could use to wrap up this conversation. Should we have the freedom to disobey rules?  This is more of an ethical question that raises the level a little bit. Whatever the organization that is establishing these rules –  society, governments, families, or schools – some don’t think you should have the freedom to disobey, while others will allow you that freedom with  consequences. Some may even allow you to disobey without consequences. I think a question like that would get the students to think about this through the perspective of a principal, parent, leader, or government. Would they give their people the freedom to disobey rules? How important is it? 

Dan Fouts: 9:09 

The whole civil disobedience pioneered by Thoreau and Emerson, and then taken up by Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is all about that. We wouldn’t have had social or civil rights movements without people answering this question. Yes, we have the freedom to disobey rules if they’re unjust. This is a really good one. 

Steve Fouts: 9:36 

We hope you enjoyed the essential question and Thoreau. I think this could be a  really good conversation. Make sure you visit our Conversation Library where we have many conversations like this, each with a different quote, a sample claim, counterclaim, and an essential question to get you started.

Take care, everybody. We will talk to you soon.  

Dan Fouts: 10:14 

Alright. Take care.