“We can only be truly generous when we expect nothing in return.” Teach Different with Muhammad Ali – Generosity

Transcript

Dan Fouts (00:10)

Hey everybody, welcome to the Teach Different podcast. Great to have you back listening. We’re gonna bring in Muhammad Ali today. We have a quote or two already in the library from Muhammad Ali. And this one is gonna be on generosity. He’s such an amazing figure in American society, really worldwide. He has had worldwide impact. And I’ve spent some time actually going to a website dedicated to him, Muhammad Ali Center, I believe it’s called and they have some great quotes there. We got one today that I think we’re gonna have a fun time. It’s just gonna be Steve and me today and we’re gonna break this down using the Teach Different Method. We’ll do that claim and that counterclaim and that tension between the two different ways of looking at something and then maybe put in some good storytelling, personal experiences, and we hope you do the same. As you listen to these, wherever you’re listening to them, always be thinking about how does this impact your life? How does this connect to your life? How does this speak to you? That is the ultimate, I think, value of this method and using these quotes from other people. How does it speak to us and how does it make us connected to others? And then we’ll ask some questions, hopefully, as they come up throughout. So here we go, Muhammad Ali. There’s actually a full quote. I’m gonna read the full quote and then just take the part that we’re gonna be looking at. I try not to speak about all the charities and people I help because I believe we can only be truly generous when we expect nothing in return. And we’re gonna focus on just that last part. I believe we can only be truly generous when we expect nothing in return. Steve, are your initial thoughts on this claim here?

 

Steve Fouts (02:22)

The definition of generosity is linked to what happens after you give something and that it’s not dealing with the motivation of being generous. So the quote’s basically saying that if you expect something in return, you’re not really generous, you’re transactional. If you’re truly generous, you’re willing to give something because it’s right or because it has some just value, inherent value in it. And if you expect something in return, it’s cheapening it.

 

Dan Fouts (03:12)

Yeah, that generosity is something that flows from you with no expectation of consequences. That there’s a pure intention. Gosh, this goes right to morality and doing something out of duty. If it’s your duty to be generous to others, you’re being generous and you’re not thinking, what am I gonna get back from this? I’m just gonna give and I’m good with myself. I’m at peace with my own soul and my own motivations and intentions for doing what I do. And I’m not gonna judge the rightness or wrongness of my actions by how it’s received. Man, that takes a strength of character. But I think that’s what he’s saying there.

 

Steve Fouts (04:09)

Well, and you mentioned duty. I didn’t think about that because sometimes people are generous out of a sense of duty and they really don’t think about how it’s being received. It’s just the right thing to do because it’s their duty. That’s, guess, one way to think about what generous means. I was thinking of it meaning more being generous shows that you could give, you could also not give. There is no compunction to do either. Like you don’t have a sense of duty and that’s why you’re being generous. You literally have no reason to be one or the other, but you choose to give and be generous on your own. Not out of a sense of duty, but just out of a free will.

 

Dan Fouts (05:07)

So you’re saying it should be choice. I can see choice and duty being a motivation to fit with this. Yeah.

 

Steve Fouts (05:14)

I agree that those could be two reasons that you’re generous. But the quote is basically saying that, okay, whatever the reasons are, you can’t expect things in return. Like if you decide to be generous and you’re really, really nice and you want to do something for someone, you have got to prepare yourself for anything when you do that, because you can’t think about any of the consequences. It’s gotta be something you’re comfortable with in and of itself. And I’m already thinking about people in my life who I’ve given things to and maybe they haven’t used it in the way that like I would have liked. But I think I adhere to this quote for the most part. The minute I give something, it is gone. Like I don’t wanna hope for anything.

 

Dan Fouts (06:11)

Yeah, I don’t have, and I think that not having an emotional attachment to how it’s received is probably a healthy mindset to have when you give.

 

Steve Fouts (06:25)

I agree.

 

Dan Fouts (06:26)

But I know people who give with an expectation for return. And one thing real quick, right, I would agree. That’s a different definition, certainly. This brings me back to a philosophy class I took in college where I remember the professor talking about generosity and he likened it to the sun.

 

Steve Fouts (06:30)

Well, and that’s not giving. That’s not generosity. That’s what this quote’s saying.

 

Dan Fouts (06:53)

It was ethics of generosity. And he said, we should be like the sun. We should just give our rays away with no expectation of return. You just emanate the good forces of your personality with no expectation. Anyway, that’s what I remembered from college that I think speaks to this as well. The sun.

 

Steve Fouts (07:17)

Now I’m thinking of that book, The Giving Tree, which I really liked growing up, but I’ve learned that it’s pretty controversial for some people because what was it about? It was about a tree that was so generous. It kept giving and giving and giving because it was in its nature and it was so generous. And it got, you could argue, taken advantage of. Maybe we’re going to dip into the counterclaim here, it got taken advantage of by the boy, right? Who grew into a man and kept just using the tree for his own life and his own happiness. And then I remember the picture of the tree, it had the little boy and his girlfriend with a heart on the tree. you know, even he found a greater love than the tree. It was kind of sad actually. The more you look at it, this generosity just turned into providing for someone their whole life. And then it ends with the boy who’s now an old man sitting on the stump and said, I just need a place to sit. I’m tired of life. And then the tree was happy.

 

Dan Fouts (08:28)

Yeah, right. Right. And so that’s more of the downsides of generosity. I’m not convinced that that totally fits into the quote. I believe we can truly be generous when we expect nothing in return.

 

Steve Fouts (08:50)

Well, this is the counterclaim would be there’s a way to be generous where there’s a little bit of you’re doing it for more than just the generosity. You’re doing it because you do want something from the other person and you don’t have to do it for the person. You don’t have to like this is back to my free will thing. the counterclaim I think is you’re generous.

 

Dan Fouts (08:54)

Without, yeah.

 

Steve Fouts (09:18)

but you really want the person to do something with it and that’s why you’re being generous.

 

Dan Fouts (09:25)

And you see love, care, attention, and concern from others manifested in them being generous to you. You read other people’s care and love for you as them doing things for you. That’s what you interpret as care. and concern. So if you’re generous to them and you don’t get something back, you don’t feel like there’s a reciprocal relationship.

 

Steve Fouts (10:02)

like even appreciation or a thank you. You’d think that you should at least hope that the person you’re generous to is going to make you feel appreciated that you were generous.

 

Dan Fouts (10:04)

Yeah, or even a right, right, right or known, known that your act of generosity was met with an appreciation. So I don’t, I think you can be, so here, I think you can be generous and expect a little bit in return, at least an appreciation, a thank you. I don’t think that that’s unwarranted. Where were you going with parents?

 

Steve Fouts (10:30)

Well, look, we could talk to parents here. Let’s talk to parents. Just parents raising kids and realizing as they go through the development stages, they go through these very selfish, egoistic stages where you’re putting a roof over their head, you’re paying for their student fees, you’re giving them an allowance, you’ve helped them get a car, whatever. I just did material things. They don’t always appreciate this stuff. They’re not always saying thank you. It gets lost in the mix in the household sometime. I’m just giving a situation where I just feel that a lot of parents maybe question this, I don’t know, generosity. Maybe there’s another motivation. for providing for someone who’s not really appreciating you that, you know, pushes it forward. But anyway, I was just thinking of that.

 

Dan Fouts (11:46)

Yeah. Truth be told, as a parent myself, with two kids, when you give, and parenting is all about giving on every level, emotional, financial, everything, you do give because, I mean, when they’re really young, you’re not expecting anything in return. And even when they’re older, I guess, peer parenting is giving without really expecting things in return. So I’m falling on the claim here, but having said that, you do yearn for an appreciation. You yearn for later in life, them to do things and say things that recognize your contributions. But I still think at our best, parents, that’s not why we’re doing what we’re doing, but gosh, it feels good. Am I on the claim or the counterclaim here?

 

Steve Fouts (12:48)

I don’t know. I just had running through my head someone who has children and is hoping that they’ll take care of them when they get older. You know, I don’t know if that’s an expectation, but come on, let’s just be realistic. If you’re raising people in this world and you just would hope that they would want to take care of you. when you need them. But again, that’s an expectation.

 

Dan Fouts (13:23)

That’s the ultimate gesture of return of love to be taken care of by your kids in your, yeah.

 

Steve Fouts (13:31)

Yeah. And some cultures would call it a duty. And I’m not saying that’s not love, but it’s a different, there’s a duty to that. In fact, other cultures, American culture is much less inclined to expect things like that. In other cultures, think that the elders are the ones that really the people in the family, know, the children and the cousins, and they’re kind of expected to take care of the elders a bit more than in our society. Our society is a bit more independent.

 

Dan Fouts (14:13)

I know someone right now who’s caring for her father who has dementia and Parkinson’s. And it is just tough. The generosity of your time and your spirit and your love that you have to give on a daily basis and to at the same time expect nothing in return. That’s a high order. And with dementia, it’s difficult because you’re not recognized in the same way that you were earlier. Your parents have a harder time even recognizing you. So you can do that, I think, but it’s okay to expect something. I don’t know, I’m kind of a little bit on the counterclaim again. And where do you get that if you can’t get it?

 

Steve Fouts (14:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Dan Fouts (15:09)

from the person that you’re caring for. This is a…

 

Steve Fouts (15:14)

It’s a good, it is a good quote. You made me think that the less you get back after you’re generous, the more you’re gonna start feeling like it’s a duty if you’re gonna continue doing it. If you’re not getting anything back that’s fueling that fire, if you’re gonna continue doing that, those things for someone, you have got to achieve or you’ve got to tap into something greater than maybe even an emotional feeling of love and respect and appreciation. You got to get beyond that and go duty. I have to do this and that’s why I’m doing it. Right.

 

Dan Fouts (16:02)

because duty gets you through, right? Duty gets you over that hump. Like, okay, I gotta do this, this is an obligation. I’m not getting much in return. There’s gotta be some motivation for me to continue to do this or it’s not gonna be done.

 

Steve Fouts (16:07)

Yes. Yeah. Right. And duty can be a motivation, a big one. Yeah, that’s that’s interesting. So what about an essential question? Read the quote again

 

Dan Fouts (16:28)

I believe we can only be truly generous when we expect nothing in return. Can we be generous without expectations?

 

Steve Fouts (16:42)

Yeah.

 

Dan Fouts (16:44)

What’s the most, what’s the healthiest way to express your generosity?

 

Steve Fouts (16:51)

What is generosity? What’s the motivation for generosity?

 

Dan Fouts (16:53)

What is generosity? Does generosity require? something in return. or can it live alone as something valuable without?

 

Steve Fouts (17:19)

Right.

 

Dan Fouts (17:24)

I believe we can only be truly generous when we expect nothing in return. Muhammad Ali. What a cool thing that he said this. He had a lot, very active charitable organizations. Think of how much he gave.

 

Steve Fouts (17:47)

Yeah. yeah, well think of anonymous donors. People who insist on not being recognized.

 

Dan Fouts (17:59)

Yeah.

 

Steve Fouts (18:02)

That’s…

 

Dan Fouts (18:05)

But I would say that people who give their name when they donate, it’s not like they’re not generous. To want a little bit of a, yeah, I did give a little bit. I mean, is that, I think there’s generosity there. That’s being truly generous, even though you’re putting your name to it.

 

Steve Fouts (18:12)

Well, yeah, that’s the. And I was drifting to the counterclaim again, just naturally, just thinking that giving to someone that you believe in, that works hard, you’re gonna expect them to do that if you give. That’s part of the reason you’re doing it. You wouldn’t just be giving it to someone.

 

Dan Fouts (18:29)

Yeah.

 

Steve Fouts (18:52)

haphazardly and not caring what they’re gonna do with, how they’re gonna use it. You give it to people that you invest in people. How about that? How about a question like, what’s the difference between generosity and investment in people? That might bring that out, because investment is definitely you need a return. Yeah, good quote.

 

Dan Fouts (19:02)

Yeah. Definitely in your nature. Sure. Yeah, this is great. All right, Muhammad Ali, I believe we can only be truly generous when we expect nothing in return. We worked really well with the claim and the counterclaim, got some questions in there, and I’m left really thinking about this one and revisiting this one. I think I’m gonna put this one off of my, bring it into class and see what my students think of it. I bet they have some interesting views on generosity. All right, thank you everybody and appreciate the listenership on this podcast. We just love doing these and we’re looking forward to the next one. Thank you so much, take care.