“Don’t be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” – Teach Different with Romans 12 verse 21

Transcript

Steve (00:00)

Welcome everybody to the Teach Different podcast. I’ve got, I’m gonna say my two favorite guests again to discuss a quote with us. And we’re gonna have a great conversation as we always do. I got Jarvis and Tr33, two community activists from the city of Chicago, also community organizers and artists. Okay. So, they keep themselves busy and it’s a privilege to have them again. And we’re going to discuss today a quote from none other than the Bible, Romans 12, 21. So we take quotes from everywhere and the Bible is a very obviously a religious document for most people, but it’s also a historical document that was created by people. And we’re going to, we’re going to take some of the wisdom from it and have a conversation about it and see whether or not, well, where it leads, right? Because these conversations are all about starting with a nugget of truth and then looking at it, and then coming up with some different perspectives on it and asking some big questions and having just a really good, really good discussion. We started up, let me give a quick update on Teach Different developments. We are talking to several legislators in Illinois right now to bring our certificate program for teachers into some schools this spring. And for all of you who’ve never heard of this Teach Different Method, this conversation method we’re about to model here on this podcast, we developed a certificate program for teachers that teaches educators how to use this to make what they’re already teaching more interesting, you know, and get more good discussions going with the students. So we’re just really excited because everybody’s seen the benefits on mental health of having conversations like this, especially among the youth. Jarvis, we’ve talked about this quite a bit, and so we’re really, really excited is what I’m saying. This spring is gonna be a groundbreaking for Teach Different, I think. And we’re going to be, we’re going to be up and going this summer and into next school year. The other thing that’s going on in Teach Different is a homeschool course. That is at its final stages of completion that parents can go through to help them learn this conversation method and use it one-on-one, or if you’ve got a few kids, use it with them. A lot of times, you know, you live in the same house with people, but you’re not always like interacting and having good discussions about things. And this framework can be used at home as well. So those are the two big things going on. I had to plug them before we get started. So without further ado, let me go ahead and kick us off. I’m gonna read the quote a couple of times and then we’ll just see who wants to jump in and we’ll start it off. Here’s the quote, and this is Romans 12 verse 21. Don’t be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Don’t be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Short, sweet, a lot in there. There’s some big words, but let’s kick it off. Who wants to start off with some thoughts about this?

 

Jarvis (03:59)

All right, so basically what I got by it, don’t be overcome by evil, but be overcome by good. What that’s kinda telling me is like, you know, the devil kinda like, it’s a conscious, like, you know, what they say, like heaven and hell is a real thing. I feel like honestly, it’s just like a place in your brain, like how you think on certain situations. Like you could kind of think evilish or you could think highly about a situation depending on what it is. So like, I don’t know, but I’m gonna use it because like I just hit this situation like where I was in a kind of tight spot and I’m not gonna lie, it was kind of pushing me to some temptation ways to kind of do something evil or something out of spite to get something that I wanted. But I had to remember like okay, I could do that though, but what is my karma of me doing that? Like, am I really gonna get what I’m looking for or what if I get something that I’m not looking for and something that wasn’t even in my plan? So I kinda like sat back on it and then what was crazy was I ended up blessing somebody at the store for like $2 and then exactly what I needed, guys, like God had just set it in my lap. And I was like, that’s a miracle though, ‘cause I was just about to do something so crazy to get what I wanted.

And it was just like, it was an unexpected blessing though. And I was just kind of like blown from it. So I don’t know, I’m just real spiritual. So now I just be thinking to myself, like when I get in those temptation ways, I’m just going to sit back and kind of think and try to like, you know, just see if it’s really worth it or not. Because like sometimes it wasn’t really worth it. It wasn’t going to be worth what I was trying to get though. So at that point, I like, kind of agree with it. I don’t know it’s tempting though. What you think Mr. Fouts? I don’t know.

 

Steve (05:51)

I like how you… You talked about karma, which is really kind of a, it’s a reason to do good. If you’ve lived a little bit longer than most, you realize that when you do evil, it comes back somehow. And once you learn that, it’s almost like a strategic decision you make. If I do this, I know I’m going to have to deal with it later. So that’s one reason to do good, you know, and don’t do evil. So that’s what I got from what you’re saying. And that resonates for me. I don’t know if what you’re thinking. We got, we got, we got Bully with us. Bully did come and we, it’s good to see you, man. just, you know, how you doing?

 

Bully (06:44)

What’s going on everybody? Sorry for being late, the kids here had my phone. I had to look at it. My thousands of apologies, man.

 

Steve (06:49)

No, no problem. No problem. Good to see you. If you want to weigh in on this quote, you know, Jarvis just brings up, you know, what I just said, basically, it’s do good because it keeps you safe in a way, you know, it keeps people from coming after you.

 

Tr33 (07:07)

I had a thought on it too, like, they say violence don’t beget violence. So I be trying to get people to understand that like my family members, my partner, my friends, like a lot of times, even if you feel wrong, like if a person wrong you, if a person like steal from you, if a person, it could be multiple levels of wrong in you. You could feel right. But if you come at them with this evil intent or this extreme negative violence, they’re going to overshadow what they did to you and only see that. Because it’s like, yeah, I did something bad to you. I disrespected you in a way. But now I’m being disrespected. And if I was mature, maybe I would be wise enough to be able to handle what I ditched out. But clearly I’m not mature because I wouldn’t even hurt you in the first place. So I’m not even mature enough to take back the last thing you were giving me. Now I only see that. So it’s like, that’s what I feel when it says like, don’t be overcome by evil. So it’s like when something, when negativity is swirling you up, don’t try to react to it with negativity because that’s it. It’s not gonna work out. You think like the other term, and fire with fire. You can’t fight fire with fire. It’s the reason sometimes to use fire. Like sometimes they set forest fires on purpose, for purposefully burning things. So sometimes it’s good to use fire metaphorically, but you gotta know the time and place. And it’s mostly best to just move peacefully through situations than being overcome by evil. Like the quotes say, for sure.

 

Steve (08:57)

It’s like you lose that control. You know, being overcome by your hate and anger and hurt, you lose control. And that’s gonna be a problem.

 

 

Bully (09:08)

It’s like to truly like levitate the quot of belief. You got to believe in God and you got to be a firm believer. And some people just not at that point, because you got to understand people was born into circumstances. So a lot of people don’t really get it till they get that moment. You know, you get that moment in life and you know like that was God got me out of that. Because a lot of us, born, we like, don’t believe in God, because why we born in the projects? Why my mama do crack? Why my uncle do crack? Why I don’t got no shoes? Why I don’t got no clothes? Why my brother just get killed? Why my auntie get killed? Ain’t no God. So if that be our mentality, people don’t believe in religion, because a lot of people just like, the religious beef, like the Muslims want you to be Muslim, Jehovah’s Witness want you to be Jehovah’s Witness, the Christians want you to be Christian. So a lot of us grow up thinking like, if that was a God, why would he put me in this? But not knowing he put me in this, because he knew I could survive in here. But it takes for people to get that moment in life, and people get that moment in life where you be like, that was nothing but God. And it took for me, like when I lost my grandmother and stuff, like I was going through things, my auntie had took all the money and kept it from us, whatever. And then I was upset, I was mad, I was gonna, I’m gonna be honest, I was probably gonna. set a house on fire. I was upset. I was really upset because my mother had died when I was five and that was like the only thing my mother could have ever left me. And my grandmother came to me in my dream and y’all might believe I’m tweaking but she came and she said, she said, Marcus, leave it alone. You’re going to be okay. So I’m like, my grandma came to me. So I left her alone and I left it alone. And then I just started getting blessings. The blessings, now it’s in my mentality, like the more I do good, the more blessings gonna come. And I firmly believe in that now. But if you don’t hardly firmly believe it, ain’t none of this stuff gonna work. You have to believe in God, you have to believe in the way and you have to believe in doing good. And now I did so much of my bad as a kid, I feel like it’s my duty to do good. I feel like I’m obligated to do good. You know, and it’s like, It’s like, slow, like with the fast money, you rob people, get money, it’s an instant gratification, but you do it the right way. You might not like the first job, you might not like the second job, but then I found a job, then it’s another job, and get better and better. It’s not a race, it’s you shut your pace, and the more good things happen for you from being good, it motivates you to be more good, and do more good, but some people just gotta get that moment. to even believe that there’s a God, because we born in so messed up circumstances, a lot of people don’t even believe in God. because I talked to my little cousin, like he out here, he wild, he get wild, like he one of the worst of the worst. And I was telling him, I’m like, don’t never feel bad for what you do, like don’t feel bad like you the devil or you going to hell, or like, because you a victim of circumstances, you weren’t asked to be here, you weren’t asked to born here. And he told me, Cusby, I don’t believe in none of that shit. I don’t even think about that. You see what I’m saying? So a lot of people not even spiritual enough to understand the relevancy of doing good.

 

Steve (12:21)

Yeah. What did you say about race and pace? You rhymed something. I don’t know if you did that on purpose.

 

 

Bully (12:33)

It’s not about the race, it’s about moving at your pace.

 

Steve (12:35)

There you go. I’m going to remember that. That’s really good. That’s really good.

 

Bully (12:39)

We are born different. I can’t do it as fast as you, Steve. I might can’t talk as fast as Jarvis, I might can’t run as fast as Tr33. But we all get into the same finish line. That ain’t my pace. It’s not a race. It’s move at your pace.

 

Steve (12:50)

I like it. You said a lot there. I want to hear from Jarvis. You got a thought, Jarvis?

 

Jarvis (12:58)

what he’s saying is honestly true though. Like you have to go through these trials and tribulations to even understand or even to find God. that’s, and a lot of people like Billy say, they do question why they here, why is these circumstances placed upon me and why I gotta go through this? Like, know, why somebody else? But I ain’t gonna lie, as I’ve been going on my journey, I’ve been understanding that, you know, God put us all in different places for a reason. I feel like he put me in a poverty so I can find him. And so I can help other people find him as well too. And that’s why I’m on this platform. And that’s why it’s people like Bully me, Tr33 you, you know what saying? Because it took trials and tribulations for us to find God. We didn’t just wake up and just say, know what? We dedicated to God. This is we gonna do. We had to go through things to actually understand well, the things that I’m putting in the universe or the things that I’m sowing, these are the things that I’m getting from my beneficiaries. Like I sow evil in my garden. I’m getting an evil plant. You know what saying? it enlightens your brain, like I said ealier, people think that there really is a Heaven and a hell. Me personally, it is all in here. How you think, how you believe. You in hell when you at your evil conscious when you at the base. un- when you thinking bare minimun. When you in survival mode. That’s hell. Because you’re willing to do whatever and whenever to get what you need. That’s hell. But when you thinking from a higher conscious self, that’s And you’ve been through things like Bully was saying earlier, you understand that there’s rules and regulations that’s inbound that I don’t see, that’s in the spiritual realm. And that’s why I can’t do what I’m finna do. Because it’s not gonna trigger on me, but it’s gonna trigger on my family. This is a bad seed that I’m sowing. And not only that I’m gonna reap, my family gonna reap too, man. And everything that we do even on the street don’t always come back to us and that’s the crazy part. It don’t never really come back to you. It goes to other people that didn’t even deserve it in your family. so like, I ain’t gonna lie, it really do take people to find God

 

Steve (15:00)

Alright. here’s one thing I want to hear what you have to what you’re thinking Tr33, but I didn’t see God in this quote and here it comes, right? We’re talking about it like it’s here and is God good? Like what word have you replaced with God from this quote? Don’t be overcome by evil, but but overcome evil with good.

 

Jarvis (15:31)

No, I replace good with merciful. Because you gotta think about it. God is a merciful God. That’s the best good you could ever give to me. Because I repented. I did so much evil. I did so much wrong. I didn’t want to guess your word so many times. Just like a bad kid. But you still show mercy for your child.

 

Steve (15:32)

Good goes to God.

 

Jarvis (15:54)

You still understand them. You know what? I’m not going to abandon you. I’m going to love you. Yes, you did do wrong, but I’m going show you right. Yes, and I will punish you. Yes, I am. But I’m going still show you love. I’m going still show you mercy. Why? Because you is my child. In the Bible, it say, we were made an image of Him. Who? God, right? So exactly, that’s a part of your temple. When you finna do good, you remember yourself as God. You’ve been merciful to your peers, your partners, other people outside.

 

Steve (16:21)

It’s almost like you’re saying thank you. Thank you for giving me the grace. You know, I’m paying you back with that. Speak, speak, Tr33. You got something.

 

Jarvis (16:27)

You see?

 

Tr33 (16:32)

Yeah, so I was thinking too about like how, so recently it was Martin Luther King’s birthday. And that’s one person that I ain’t never seen nobody in my life embody that quote more than Martin Luther King. Like they was literally walking, getting spit and beat on. and then swing back once. They did not get like, it’s hard to not, it’s hard, like it’s hard on an average daily basis just to deal with just a random person that ain’t even physically harming you. It’s hard to deal with rude customer service people. It’s hard to deal with rude people on public transportation. It don’t mean like hard, but it’s just like these things can kind of like ruffle your. you know, throw off your center of peace. And that’s not even getting physically touched. They was getting physically touched. They were getting spit on, beat on, dog sick, throw them, and still was able to move with love. And it’s like, the only thing I could look into that is like, that’s some type of spiritual strength. And they were not overcome by evil. And I stand on that. I believe that that’s the only way to be evil, is with love. It’s like. If we like, it’s another example I have. Not too long ago, a mother was attacked by children here in Chicago. A mother was attacked with her children by little children that went to her children’s school. And it was outrage, it was an uproar. And it was a mob of adults the next day at the school hollering, bring those kids out, let’s kick those kids ass. And they really wanted to beat up the kids. And somehow their argument was, That’s how we got to teach these kids. can’t, we’re going to teach them that you can’t beat up people by beating them up. And I was in it. And I got a lot of flack on the internet because I was against that. And I actually went on a podcast and argue with the host of the podcast because she was one of the ring leaders of the mob that was at the kids school. And her audience was like, you want to talk to those kids and all that talking stuff don’t work. And it’s like, we can’t teach our kids to react to violence with violence. It’s like, okay, we tell our kids, like the average parent don’t, not the average, lot of parents, I ain’t gonna say the average, because I don’t know how the average parent is. I feel like there’s actually a lot of more positive parents nowadays, the negative is just outshines the positive. But I feel like some parents, they misconstrue how they could tell their kid like, Learn how to communicate. Let’s say, okay, let’s say this. A parent catch his son yelling at his little sister. A father catches his son yelling at his little sister. The father would tell his son, when you angry at your sister or when your sister having a difficult situation, don’t yell at her. Talk to her. Woo woo. But then that same father would turn around and yell at the son when he don’t know two times two or something. He’ll say, how the hell you don’t know this son? Then they’ll get aggravated and get frustrated and start yelling. And it’s like, we don’t model, the average parent don’t model what they tell their kids. So it’s like, we can’t teach our kids to, when negative things is going on in life, react negatively back.

 

Steve (19:58)

I see what you’re saying. You’re basically looking at this quote, don’t be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. It’s like being a role model. You can’t teach someone a lesson by doing what you’re telling them not to do. That’s not a lesson. Bully.

 

Tr33 (20:10)

Mm-hmm.

 

Bully (20:20)

I’m on the way in on that too. Yeah. Cause that’s crazy, know, that’s how me and Jarvis actually got so close like, He was working with us at the job and he was bugging up about his money. He like, man, I want my money. I want my money. What the fuck, where my money at? the bam? He was, he had talked crazy like y’all want some clowns and woo woo. So I see it. feel like I’m thinking things like, you talking about some clowns or whatever. But then I realized they under me and they mentoring me. I didn’t go at first, because he’s like, y’all some clowns with my check and woo woo. So I’m ready to go there with him. Like, who the fuck are you talking to? Who a clown? Who other band? But then I thought about it like, if I go off like that, how the fuck am I to tell him not to do it with him? So I bent on him. I called him and walked him. I bent on the man to man. And I talked to him, come, like a man. And he understood what he come to. We talked about it. And we worked it out. And he been rocking with me ever since, but that’s how I came at him. I didn’t come at him talking crazy like I was going to do nothing. I just talked to him calmly, how I would want him to react. Because one thing you got to know about these kids we dealing with, especially in Chicago, you got to be the message you bring. If you fake, you phone it one time, you got one time to some fake flaws, everything you do ain’t going to mean nothing. You just going to be looked at as fake. That’s why I love the work. I love my job at the Institute of Nonviolence. I love what we do because…

 

Jarvis (21:32)

We’re done.

 

Bully (21:38)

We got a saying, one of our principles is we attack the forces of evil, not the people doing it. You understand what I’m saying? Let’s get to the root of the problem. Why nobody never asked the kids like, or why they doing it what they doing, all that. All they animals, the YNs, they crazy. Stay away from the YNs, get your kids or whatever. But they try to dehumanize them like they monsters or they like third party citizens. Like they’re their own community when these are babies just like anybody else babies. This is what they grew up around. This is what they know. This is a culture. So the person doing it, not the problem. Because when he go to jail, guess what? Lil Ray Ray gonna be doing it after him. And Lil TeeJay gonna be doing it after him. And Lil Cece gonna be doing it after him. So we gotta set the roots of source of why they’re doing it and change the culture and change the way they’re thinking. And it’s so beautiful that we got young brothers like Jarvis and Tr33 with this mentality, because they can set the pace. Cause a lot of times, times change. It’s like, I know a lot about the streets. I could be in with like the older bro, cause I jumped off the porch young and I’ve been around younger. I know how to deal with the young guys and they deal with me whatever, they can, a lot of times they can tell me, you don’t know how it is out here. And I could be like, man, well I used to walk with the band, but they be like, ain’t like that no more. Cause back when we was coming up, it was more structure now. You couldn’t judge, I couldn’t get into it with Tr33 at the gas station and shoot him right there. You know what saying?

 

Steve (22:53)

Yeah.

 

Bully (23:05)

If I get into a Tr33, I gotta go tell the guys, man, I just got into a dude, woo woo woo, and then we were off, we finna slide through there. And then the guys gonna be like, oh no, that’s woo woo woo cuz, or no, he good, or go on, do it. It wasn’t no conscious decision just like now, just bail out, we get into it, what’s up, pa pa pa pa, and I’ll shoot you. And start a whole game, we were like how it is now. So it was different, so you had to move different. So they wild and look different than us. They trained to go faster than us, because then they mind its kill or be killed So let’s get that out they mind and see why they mind like that, and what got them to that point. and try to reprogram the culture. Because if you crucify the person every time, you’re never going to solve the root of the problem.

 

Steve (23:41)

That right there, if you crucify the person. Jarvis, speak to that and then I’m gonna do something that’s dangerous, which is to try to move us to a counterclaim. I’m almost afraid, but Jarvis, give me your last thought about that.

 

Jarvis (24:02)

He right though, mean just by punishing a person it’s not gonna kill the problem. Like it’s just like killing one roach. It’s not gonna exterminate your house from roaches. And that’s what the problem is. We need more people that’s pushing the positivity. Let’s, instead of pushing pick up a gun, let’s pick up knowledge. know, like they always say, if you wanna have something from a black person, put it in a book. I’m… To be quite frankly, it been real so far because the more knowledge that I gained over the time, it changed the way I think. Why? Because I didn’t have this knowledge at first. So when I don’t have knowledge, I’m just dumbfounded and I’m only stuck in a box of the things that I know. So I’m only limited. Let me say that to the other. I’m limited to a certain level because of what I’m experiencing, right? But once I started to get into different rooms and I started to get around different people, you understand that, you know, there’s different societies in this world that you live in, right? And that’s what I be trying to, you know, push off into some of my guys or some to my friends, you know, is that like, we live in a society as a culture and that’s our, that’s our problem because we’re not willing to come outside of our culture and learn. We always like to stereotype, well, well, Maxicans build, well. that’s something that they learned. They learned a trade that they can get paid for. That was something, you know, but you learned to pick up a gun, you know what I’m saying? So now I tell my friends, I say, we do this now. If it don’t make money, it don’t make sense. Family first, but if it don’t make money, it don’t make sense. I like to put it in that equation now because nowadays, if you don’t have money, you’re nobody in our culture. So I kind of like to tell it to them like that, know, money before anything. So if it’s not making you money, is it really beneficial to you? No, it’s a liability. Why? Because it’s taking time away from you. It’s taking your energy away from you. It’s taking your focus even better yet away from you. And now you’re being limited to do limited things, which is in acting in negativity. So we kind of go up on like a challenge. So I kind of challenge them now, like, you know, 14 days of working at Attempt AC is hard. It’s a lot of crap. You know, it’s a lot of bull crap. But what we do now is we choose our hard instead of letting our hard choose us. I’d rather not be broke. And it is irritating to go work at Attempt, but I would rather choose that hard than be broke and have to go rob somebody and then be in a harder situation. So we just learn to be man and choose our hard.

 

Steve (26:27)

There you go. Wow.

 

Jarvis (26:41)

Everything is going to be hard. Nothing’s easy in life and nothing’s guaranteed. But what is a guarantee is choosing your difficulty. That is a guarantee. So.

 

Steve (26:50)

You know, do this when we’re done, Jarvis, I want you to think about another quote about aligning to that theme, choosing your hard. Just, you know, let it come to you in its own way, but let’s do a conversation on that. I really like that angle. ⁓ Yeah. And look, we’re talking about a lot of really important things and

 

Jarvis (26:59)

EAT

 

I got you.

 

Steve (27:18)

You know, with a counterclaim with something like this. You know, don’t be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. I’m going to throw out. Let me start us off. I’ll try to say something and I’m going to define evil my way. And maybe that’s, getting out of this a little bit because it’s hard to come up with a counterclaim to this. But if you think of evil is something like.

 

Jarvis (27:39)

Mm.

 

Steve (27:52)

anger or kind of like resentment when someone does something to you that’s unjust and you know that they did it and it was unjust and they might have even done it on purpose and you’re dealing with ⁓ a thing I won’t even say a human I’ll say at that moment a thing

 

Jarvis (28:03)

Mm-hmm.

 

Steve (28:22)

And You want to get back at them. but you’re bigger than that. You say, you know, I’ll pay for you. ⁓ I’m not gonna let that get to me. And the minute that you start punking out a little bit, that becomes permission. to be abused again, because they think that the reason that you’re not coming back with some evil, you know, and some hard, maybe they’re trying to bring it out in you. It’s because you can’t, it’s because you’re weak. And so what it does is it might get you to have an eventually, but there’s a bunch of people looking at you. and they know that you were treated wrong, but you didn’t stand up for yourself. So I’m trying to… I don’t know. I’m gonna leave it there. I don’t know if that is a counterclaim.

 

Jarvis (29:32)

Right, so.

 

Bully (29:32)

Yeah, but like Fouts with that, like you don’t have to attack evil with evil. And that go back to what I was saying. You can stand your ground without doing with evil. Like I could tell you, like when me and Jarvis come to, I steal my ground. I just didn’t go where he went with it. I ain’t talking about no going go. But I explained to him like, this ain’t that or this ain’t that, but I ain’t talk crazy. It’s just the way you deliver it. And it go back to what I said at first, you have to be spiritually believe immensely in your head that God gonna work it through and out. That good really wins. That good over, if you don’t believe that good over Trump’s ego, it’s a lost cause, because everything caused with faith. And you got to believe that everything gonna work out, because if you don’t have faith, that’s the whole point why you turning the old cheek, that you believe that good gonna win, so you gonna let God deal with it. Or you gonna let the situation work itself. But there’s other ways to stand your ground without The attack of evil with evil.

 

Jarvis (30:32)

Am I like kind of like my favorite way I like to say nowadays because I got a little wise so I like to use it a lot Be wise and not a fool Choose your battles when people intentionally do things to you That’s a fool and what I mean by that’s a fool. That’s a guy that’s trying to trick you out to a spot Why because he understands that you’re going somewhere and he got to throw you off So this is why you don’t let people throw you off because people see your potential when you don’t see your own potential And guess what? Tricking you out your spot may be just the best thing to do because they can attack you in other forms. You see what I’m saying? So you gotta understand, you gotta be wise and not a fool. You gotta understand that this is not a battle to be fought This is a battle to be moved on from. Even like the great Indians, like I used to like the great natives, you know what I’m saying? The great Chiefs They didn’t just go to war just to go to war. No, no, no. there must be a reason because if there is not a reason then we can walk away. No need to lose, no need to die over something that is foolish and that’s what our community is at now.

 

Steve (31:40)

There you go.

 

Tr33 (31:43)

I got a counterclaim.

 

Steve (31:45)

Pickin’ battles. I wanna hear this counterclaim Tr33. I really like what you, Bully and Jarvis just came up with. Go for it.

 

Tr33 (31:50)

my brother said, what both my brother said is definitely on the money. But leaning back to the biblical text, because this quote we’re using is from the Bible, God respectfully let motherfuckers put belt to ass in the Bible a bunch of times. So for instance, let’s say, okay, the Bible reference I was gonna use was this guy Samson, the strong guy Samson in the Bible. He killed like thousands of people with a donkey’s jawbone. Like literally, like it was, is what the Bible say. He was under attack by thousands of people in his army and God made ⁓ a jawbone of a donkey appear on the ground. And he told him, Grab that and fight. And I’m your God and I’m with you and you will make it through that. And he killed thousands of people with just one weapon. And I’m thinking about two also like, okay, the aspect of like self-defense can’t be seen as evil. But if you take a life, even if the person who was trying to take your life, the person who was trying to take your life, he might be a father and your father. He might be trying to rob you and take your life because he feel like he don’t got no choice. I got to feed my kids. I’m just trying to take your money, but you don’t want to get your money took. Now we tussling. So now it come from me trying to rob you to now I’m scared for my life. So I’m going to try to take your life. But you don’t want your life took. So you end up taking my life. But my wife and my child and my family, grandmother, my cousins, all them crying and mournful hero.

 

Jarvis (33:29)

at the same time though, that’s how I feel about taking a man’s life under those circumstances. That was out of my will. That wasn’t intentional. That wasn’t deliberate. And me personally, I don’t feel like God penalized you for that because like I said earlier, you get punished for your intention with God. That’s why you get karma. because you get punished because you deliberately did that. You knew that that was wrong and you did that. That’s why God punish people that do bad because it’s karma. You knew that it was wrong. But if something, if somebody is just protecting their soul in a life of threatening situation, God not gonna punish that person. That’s why humanity can’t punish that person. At what point, what do you want them to do? That’s just like wildlife. Like if you see a…

 

Bully (34:27)

That’s like why you got self-defense and murder. Like you can kill somebody on some BS doing something wrong, you’re go to jail, you’re gonna suffer, that’s your punishment. But if you defending yourself in self-defense, they’re gonna let you go.

 

Jarvis (34:38)

Exactly even in Mother Nature with a lion and a gazelle if a gazelle kicks a lion back He’s not penalized for that you’re fighting for your life. This is something that is You’re in fear you’re reacting out of fear

 

Tr33 (34:52)

So now we’re getting into the space of can it be good even? It’s like, cause I feel like nowhere to put it is killing. I feel like the act of killing is evil, but it can be done positively.

 

Jarvis (35:02)

See you soon. Look, look, there’s no good evil. Why I say this is because evil is intentional. Evil is a state of mind where you think at your lowest state. You’re thinking like an animal. You’re thinking in survival mode. So at that point, everything you do, you may think that, I’m only doing this to get out this situation. But what you’re doing to the next person is deliberately wrong. You know this. You know that so at that point you will be penalized but like we say even in the bible

 

Tr33 (35:41)

No, good, look, no,

 

Steve (35:43)

Alright, hang on. Go ahead, Tr33

 

Tr33 (35:44)

That’s same thing as a brick out.

 

Steve (35:45)

Respond to that, and then I have a place we can go.

 

Tr33 (35:49)

So what Jarvis was just saying, you just say if you respond in survival mode, you’re getting penalized. But then you also just said, if you respond and you just trying to defend your life, God not gonna punish you. In the middle of you in the shootout, you in survival mode. In the middle of somebody trying to get down on you, you is in survival mode. You gonna do anything possible. You’re gonna possibly take that.

 

Jarvis (36:07)

You’re right, right, Now look. Exactly, but listen though, well see what

 

Bully (36:15)

think Jive is saying like in the moment then a mentality. It’s just two different things. Tr33 you talking like a survival mode mentality, then a survival mode in that moment is called intent.

 

Jarvis (36:20)

See look, that’s what separates. That’s see now that’s what separates it that right there. That’s what God look at right there What you are saying is ⁓ you respond and because you’re being threatened that’s I’m doing this because I’m being threatened This is not deliberately. I wasn’t looking forward to you to attack me You was looking forward to tag me you point me out. You pick me out. You prayed on me Your intent was to hurt me That’s not my intent. So that’s why you get punished between that that split second right there

 

Tr33 (36:26)

Mmm, okay.

 

Jarvis (36:54)

Your mentality and your decision is what gets you penalized. It’s not the way you react. It’s your mentality. Just like if somebody, just like if you sit right here and you call me a B-I-T-C-H hypothetically, right? Right? Your intention, you could be sitting right here playing like we play all the day. You could be playing and

 

Tr33 (37:11)

So,

 

Jarvis (37:12)

I wouldn’t even react to you, But if you sit in a different way, in a different tone and I see that you intended to hurt me, then that’s a problem because I felt your mindset, twin. You see what I’m saying?

 

Bully (37:24)

That’s why I used to say that all the time. Like it’s two types of people with guns. You got one like me that come outside with the gun like I pray nobody don’t make me do nothing to them. I just protect myself. And then you got another guy who get the gun on like, I wish a motherfucker would. I’m ready to try something. I’m ready. They looking for it. But then you got some people

like, I pray nobody mess with me. That’s how I used to be outside. Like, no, nobody don’t mess with me. I pray nobody don’t bother me. But I know I got the high of this. I know this the west side of Chicago. I know I have going out here. But I swear to God, I don’t want to do nothing to nobody. Then you got somebody who get a gun and go Tupac, Bishop, and Jews. You know what saying? I wish a motherfucker would. What’s the matter? I’m ready for anybody. It’s all about the mentality.

 

Jarvis (38:02)

Mm-hmm.

 

Steve (38:03)

Tr33 thoughts and then I’m going to move into concluding us here. What are your thoughts from what they were saying?

 

Tr33 (38:14)

Now it perfect sense. was definitely about angle was, my angle was trying to see could

 

Tr33 (38:21)

evil be good? But then Jarvis gave one of the coldest points that I like kind of overlooked on evil. Like evil is your intention. It is like evil is like intentions, like Jarvis was saying, evil is intent. So then I started thinking about how evil can also be tied to morality and what people see in a moral spectrum. So on the surface level where we were at, violence, everything they hit was, yeah, I agree with it. I can’t really see a counterclaim of how you can be evil now to overcome good.

 

Steve (39:01)

Well, you’re you, you were convinced, let’s put it that, let’s put it that way. Cause the question that really spurred this on, you did it Tr33, right? You said, could you be good in being evil? And you know, you took Jarvis’s response and that what you had the essential question. He answered it. You believed it. So you’re back to the claim, right? Here’s another essential question I got. And it was kind of from Bully, I think a little bit. And then Jarvis had weighed in.

how do you stand your ground, but not become your enemy, like become evil? How do you balance that? Because I think a lot of people don’t know how to balance that, right? So let’s let those drift, those two essential questions. Before we go, I wanna get all of your take on something that just happened on Friday this past Friday in Minneapolis. There was a guy named, I think his name was, it doesn’t matter what his name is. He’s a far right kind of provocateur, you know, someone on social media who is, you know, some people might call him a white supremacist, anti-Muslim, you know, like a real kind of, you know, someone who’s always trying to provoke. I really don’t know a thing about him. He came to counter protest.

when the Minnesotans were protesting, you know, the way that their community is being treated with ice and all this stuff. And this guy, don’t know if you saw it in the news, he got this, there was mob action on this guy and they had him cornered up against a building. And you know, look, they were squirting water at him and everything. So it wasn’t crazy stuff, but you could see it in his face that, you know, the crowd turned on him.

 

Tr33 (40:50)

I saw it.

 

Steve (41:15)

Who was there that was trying to get in between him and the rest of the crowd? This 30 year old black guy who I saw an interview with him later. He’s really religious, but he looked a little hood too. You you could hear him talk and it’s like, he didn’t grow up in the suburbs. This guy, seemed to have, anyway. So my question to you is, how does someone get motivated to protect someone that would never give them that protection?

 

Jarvis (41:57)

Hey, hey, hey, man, ain’t gonna lie. It’s just, it’s just real people in the world, Like, like, I just can’t let that happen to you. Even though you in the wrong, man, I’m not feeling, hey, look, it’s real people in the world, man, for real. Like, what that man did was real stand up, though. You know what I’m saying? Like, all right, even though he got his point of view, though, man, y’all ain’t finna do that to him, though, man. Y’all just not finna corner him, him. Suppress him you feel I’m saying he got an opinion just like everybody else do he got a right to feel some type way here even though he probably Expressing it in a negative way though, but which I’m doing this negative to as well though You know I’m saying it takes setting up guys like that You know I’m saying cuz when he probably stood up for me party stop and they probably look at him crazy though But then they don’t like it’s just a it’s a way we handle things as human don’t matter what race you is man It’s just a way we handle things man. You know I’m sound like

 

Bully (42:52)

It go all back to what I said in the beginning. It’s like you got to really believe in good and believe in doing good. You got to believe that you’re doing the wrong thing. It’s called having integrity. Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody ain’t looking. He could have easily just went against everything. He stood for all this principle. Like this man said, well, they got chunked the other way. But he deep down inside, he knew what was wrong. Like a lot of people crucify the ICE officer because they behave in the way they act and things they do. But you gotta put it from the other foot. When you believe in good, you gotta put yourself in somebody’s foot. What if that lady would have ran them over and killed them with the car though? Ain’t nobody thinking about what she did. Every action causes a reaction. It’s a consequence to every action. If the officer tell you to stop and you don’t stop, then you pull a car off that. I done seen people carry reckless homicides. I done been locked up with people that have been vehicle homicides on high speeds running from the police and the police trying to lock them up and they done ran them over and they get 60 years for that. That’s like a murder. Half speed chases you accidentally hit somebody or whatever. I’m not taking up for that. He might have bogus motives. He might have bad intentions. They might have bad intentions the way they treat people. They treat people wrong. But at that moment, she decided to attack evil with evil.

 

Jarvis (44:12)

Mm-hmm, and that’s where you go wrong a lot of times. That’s why you get that negative.

 

Bully (44:14)

And that’s where you go wrong, instead of just stopping the car, talking about it, and wait your moment, and then let your lawyer or then speak your piece. She decided, forget the rules, forget the law. She lost herself in that moment. And she pulled off and tried to get away, and she almost ran the man over. Whether she would ran him over and killed him, though.

 

Jarvis (44:26)

You So like, know… Okay, like, who’s there?

 

Bully (44:31)

You gotta look at it from both ways, man. And I’m not justifying he’s doing him a shoot or nothing, but I’m just being right as right, fair as fair, man.

 

Jarvis (44:39)

There you go. And look, that’s what that dude was doing there.

 

Tr33 (44:41)

But they look that that’s all the topic to dog a that’s no that’s a special because in Situations like that the police gotta know how to the police any type of law enforcement Gotta know how to come toward people bro. They was at that lady car like they got a call It was Hispanic terrorists in the car y’all at the car guns out. This is a white couple. What’s going on? We’re white. What’s happening?

 

Jarvis (44:46)

Nah, but process is talking about the doodoo. Like, hey, look, negativity and negativity, man, it’s just a negativity, man. Like, with the lady that got killed by the ICE officers, even the dude that’s getting sprayed down by water, man, like, it took that one dude to stand up and do something positive to make probably 15 other people realize what they was doing was wrong, man. You know what I’m saying? It takes a leader to stand up.

 

Steve (45:30)

Yeah.

 

Tr33 (45:30)

Nah, look, let me answer that too.

 

Jarvis (45:36)

so you could see the difference between real leaders and crowds. Crowds, they’re gonna follow what’s popular. They’re gonna follow what everybody else is doing. A leader, he do the unpopular decision. He do what’s unpopular. He do what people don’t think is fun. You know why? Because this is what’s gonna really benefit us, How y’all keep saying equal and we living equal when everybody living their own brain about different people. They white, they masking, they black, they Indian, they be doing it, they be doing it. But yet you say we equal though you you you should I’m saying you got a lot of people that just contradict They so and they really think that they be really cool like you’re not a cool person when you contradict yourself That’s why I tell people you really should shut up more and just do action more because the more you talk it poke holes in your story You know I’m saying this make you feel I’m really poach me hold your story if I’m seeing you move the way you already say you move

 

Tr33 (46:09)

you Okay.

 

Jarvis (46:29)

Hey, I ain’t even got a doubt that he moving like that. They don’t access pull out in words, man. Like real people, you know what I’m saying? You gotta have real people in the world,

 

Tr33 (46:40)

I saw the video. They actually beat that man. They actually beat him. You ain’t see them beat themselves. They beat him.

 

Steve (46:49)

I saw him bloodied.

 

Tr33 (46:51)

He was bleeding they beat him chasing to a car Look shorty shorty. He look when dude dude dude getting between them. He’s standing on like a ledge They trying to pull him off the ledge black buddy getting him and all the people they snatch him off the ledge black buddy grab It was only one person trying to help him bro only one black buddy running with him. He running with him He running with him now. They they run the panel screaming with water yelling at him throwing stuff at him

 

Bully (46:53)

ain’t never see it, I’m gonna go look it up when we get off.

 

Steve (47:08)

I know there was literally one person.

 

Tr33 (47:19)

And the middle of them running with him, somebody fouls him. Foul! ⁓ he fouls shorty. bro, they beat this man. That’s like, it made me think, though. It made me think like, It made me think like, bro, the people that are fighting for these things, Now, granted, history has been changed through violence. We see that. A lot of times, revolutions, sadly, are violent.

 

Steve (47:25)

saw that, yeah. I mean, look, I was just.

 

Bully (47:29)

I gotta look that up, I watch the news, I ain’t see that.

 

Tr33 (47:47)

But that don’t mean that’s how it’s always supposed to be. And that’s how it has to be. But the people that are fighting for these oppressed groups, we got to realize that we can’t just be catching people who we are, who we feel are racist or who we view as white supremacists and just stomp them out. We can’t just do that. this ain’t gang banging. This ain’t like, like, what’s going on? youth gang banging. Those are youth gang banging tactics. Like, oh, you from the…

You from the opposing side. We’re going to jump on you now. Like what? We ain’t.

 

Jarvis (48:19)

That’s not that’s not gonna resolve nothing though bro. Somebody jump on me gang look somebody jump on me folk that’s gonna make me want to go get 15 other people gang. I get that though but like negativity and negativity like that ain’t you somebody jump me gang that’s gonna make me want to go get 15 other people guns all types of like that’s not gonna result.

 

Tr33 (48:21)

No, this man is still racist. And he just did an interview. bro, the man just did an interview. He’s still racist. That’s what I’m saying. He didn’t even care that a black dude helped him. He said, he said, he said, look, shorty, the minute in interview, he said the black dude was really going in his pockets. I swear to God. I’m not lying. They interviewed him. They tried to get him to get a, I promise to God, y’all. They interviewed him and tried to get him to get a black dude some props for helping him. And this man said that black man was trying to go in his pockets. He wasn’t really helping him.

 

Jarvis (48:41)

Man, that’s not gonna be so difficult. ⁓

 

Bully (49:09)

You can’t even help people when they just feel crazy

 

Tr33 (49:10)

I promise you, I promise you, I promise you. And then he start saying that girl name. He start saying that girl name that was stabbed on the train.

 

Steve (49:24)

anyway, ⁓ it was a great conversation, fellas. I think, you know, we covered a lot of bases. I’m going to say it for us. I don’t know if we did the best we could have done with the counterclaim, but I think a counterclaim on a quote like this is one of the more difficult ones. And we didn’t really get into a definition of what evil is. We kind of danced around it and assumed, do you have something?

 

Jarvis (49:53)

No, we got that concept. We got that concept.

 

We got, look, the concept of evil is all about your intention. That’s what evil is. Evil is intention. It don’t matter what you do in life, when you have the wrong intentions, it’s evil. Exactly.

 

Steve (50:00)

intentions you’re right actually my fault my fault. It’s your heart, right? Right. I got you. I stand corrected. So yeah, add something, Tr33.

 

Tr33 (50:13)

Your intention with the evil is negative direction towards your intention towards the natural balance. So the natural balance of life. So the natural balance of life. So whatever natural in life is, if you’re going against that intentionally, that’s now you’re doing evil. So the natural, the natural life is to live. So if you’re killing intentionally and taking life, That’s evil.

 

Jarvis (50:26)

Told you, it’s your intention, I told you. I told you.

 

Steve (50:26)

Okay. Okay. and conclude that we have the question.

 

Jarvis (50:46)

Well, if you’re doing things intentionally that’s negative, that’s what? Evil, right? Exactly. Your intentions is the one thing that separates mistakes from deliberate choices. That’s the one thing that separates mistakes and things that’s done intentionally. The intention.

 

Steve (50:47)

that’s unnatural.

 

Tr33 (50:51)

Evil. You intentionally add in negative.

 

Steve (51:08)

I like this. I like it.

 

Bully (51:11)

I’m telling you, I’m changing for real, bro. I just believe in good and blessing and blessings come. You gotta have that moment of belief. I made a conscious effort to stop stealing. I don’t even steal out the stores no more. It be killing me, look, stuff I know I would’ve stole, I just pay for it, man, because I just don’t be wanting no bad karma on me. I’m fully developed in my goods mode, and I’m on good mode for the rest of my years here. I’ma do good, man.

 

Tr33 (51:25)

Yeah

 

Jarvis (51:31)

Yeah

 

Steve (51:34)

I love it.

 

Jarvis (51:34)

know that.

 

Tr33 (51:35)

No, I don’t feel the same way.

 

Steve (51:37)

and God gave you grace for that.

 

Jarvis (51:40)

for sure.

 

Bully (51:41)

It be killing me like man I can just do this shit motherfuckin’

 

Steve (51:46)

All right, fellas, it was good. It was really, really good. Thanks for coming. We’ll definitely do it again. And ⁓ just take care, be safe out there and until next time.