“Be the change that you wish to see in the world,” – Teach Different with Mahatma Gandhi

Transcript

Dan Fouts (00:10)

Welcome everybody to the teach different podcast. We have a quote today from Mahatma Gandhi. I would say the most famous quote that he’s ever delivered and said in so many different circles. We will get to the quote in a minute, but before we do, a little bit about the method, right? We’re going to take this quote. We’re going to break it down. Everyone is going to want to agree with Mahatma Gandhi on this particular quote. Then, of course, we’re going to have to push against it, come up with some sort of counterclaim against it or a different way of looking at the world that’s equally valid that might go hidden and undetected if we kind of fall prey to the idea of just agreeing with everybody. So that in that sense, it trains us, right, to be critical thinkers. And so we’re going to model that. And then we’ll come up with a question or two, either during the conversation or after the conversation. And those questions are organic. You don’t know when they’re going to come out, but they often are the product of the tension between the claim and the counterclaim. So here we go. Anti-colonial nationalist leader, Mahatma Gandhi, famous for so many things, um, nonviolent resistance and just an amazing leader. Here’s his famous quote. Many of you, I’m sure have heard of this, be the change that you wish to see in the world. Be the change that you wish to see in the world.

Steve, what do you think his claim is here?

Steve Fouts (01:51)

Self empowerment. Don’t make excuses. If you don’t like something, change your own behavior, the way you react to it. Presumably stay positive on some level, but be the change is the phrase that I would just stop and talk about specifically. What does that mean to be the change? It’s going to depend on what you’re changing. But some things are so big that whatever it is you’re changing, I want to know what that looks like if you’re going to be the change. So that’s what I would focus on. It’s definitely empowering. It’s no frills, no excuses.

Dan Fouts (02:39)

I would add to that, you know, self responsibility, take responsibility for yourself. If you live a life criticizing the world for what it’s not, and you have a vision for what it should be,. you then should be the first mover towards that vision. It puts a lot of responsibilities on the shoulders of people, which oftentimes they don’t want. It’s easier to sit back and criticize the status quo rather than empower yourself to do something about it, but very passionate, very motivating quote. Be the change that you wish to see in the world, get up.

Steve Fouts (03:24)

It also does assume, like you’re saying, that you have a vision. For the world. You have a way you want the world to be. That’s not something that everyone has. So the quote is for a certain type of person, is another thing I would point out.

Dan Fouts (03:44)

Yes, and I would say that a question that could come early in this conversation is what change do you want to see? What is it about the world that you are bothered with that you want to change? And what does that look like? And then maybe move into more of the claim of, all right, how would you act differently tomorrow morning, if you want to put that change into reality? This would be a good, like with students or adults, this is going to work well.

Steve Fouts (04:20)

Yeah, just ask everybody to say what’s one thing you want to change about the world. Start with that and then get into the quote. That’s really good actually. A nice way to, to start with an essential question. We haven’t done that too often using that format where you just kind of, you put a question out there and that frames the conversation. I like that.

Dan Fouts (04:45)

Yeah, and then the claim and counterclaim can come after it. Speaking of counterclaim, what would be a way to push against this a little bit or see the world differently here? A different line of thinking.

Steve Fouts (05:02)

It depends on what change you’re looking for. Is it possible to be the change in a system that’s so bad that if you are going to try to change it, you’re going to put yourself out there in jeopardy and you’re risking a lot by doing that because what good is it if the system just devours you and you know you tried but you weren’t effective because you tried to model the vision too early and maybe it was too early for people that you should the counterclaim maybe could be something like You need to think of change as something gradual. And your first thought shouldn’t be to be the change. Your first thought should be maybe, Okay. I’m going to define a vision that I want to come about and I’m going to examine what the obstacles are. First, I’m going to be smart about this. I’m not going to just embody all the virtues and all the things that I want the world to be immediately because people aren’t going to recognize them and they’re going to be misunderstood in a system that’s not constituted for it. I want to, can you think about an example?

Dan Fouts (06:29)

oh, no, no, I can’t think of an example. I was just going to push against that a little bit in that. Maybe if you’re, that seems to still support the claim in the sense that you’re preparing yourself for a vision of seeing the world differently. And. You could still embrace being the change, but then realize that this is a protracted battle that you can’t immediately jump into and do. Uh, so I don’t, I don’t know. I see that as more aligning to the, to the claim, but maybe in a going with your, going with your logic though, let’s say you’re in an employment place where it’s dysfunctional. There’s bad management, all sorts of problems. Maybe the way to think about this going with what you said is don’t change anything, let, let the system unravel and show its ineptitude first, let it destroy itself and then maybe pick up more on the spirit of be the change.That’s it.

Steve Fouts (07:38)

Sometimes that is a way to handle things. I mean, it sounds like you’re resigned and you’re making things worse by not doing something, but if you see its flaws, sometimes when it destroys itself, it’s easier to build something else back up. I thought of another, like, specific example from a school where you could say this may be a counterclaim. Let’s say you’re, whatever, a sophomore in high school, middle schooler, and you disagree with the school uniform policy. You disagree with it. You think it’s hampering your self expression. So, if you’re going to be the change you wish to see in the world, you might wake up and just say, I’m going to wear whatever I want. I’m going to show these people what this school could look like if everybody wore what they really wanted to wear. And I’m going to be the change. Okay. What’s going to happen is you’re going to get detentions. You’re going to get in trouble. You’re going to get punished, whatever you might, they might even let you in the school, you know, because that was too quick. Maybe, uh, that was, you should have maybe had a conversation with the principal first or went and talked to the student council about bringing this change up in a more formal setting, kind of working within the system, and that would have been a better way to do it. But then you could argue that being the change is actively working within the system to change it. So, you know, I’m just saying if you get too self empowered…

Dan Fouts (09:17)

Or going against it. Or going against the system. Or getting kicked out of the school is a necessary step towards the change. So now here’s where another essential question is coming out here. How do I know when the change I make is at the right time to get my desired outcome? Right.

Steve Fouts (09:40)

the right time to quote, be the change and really take it upon yourself to maybe, like you’re saying, get ostracized and get put outside the system. You might have to be a sacrificial,

Dan Fouts (09:57)

Right. Person.

Steve Fouts (09:58)

know, person, but that serves as a model and that can inspire others. Think of Nelson Mandela, you know, he knew he was breaking the law and he spent 26 years in prison and inspired generations.

Dan Fouts (10:12)

So I guess what we’re saying here is that be the change that you wish to see in the world. If you are going to assume this responsibility of being a change agent, change agent. You have to do it at the right time. There has to be discernment as to when to do it, how to do it. It’s not just embracing the responsibility, it’s knowing when to use it. And that’s leadership right there, I think.

Steve Fouts (10:45)

Yeah, and you can be about change working behind the scenes. It’s not as if it has to happen the next day. So I think there is a balance to this, you know, if the timing is not right. to put yourself out there and wear what you want to school, then there are some steps you can take to make the timing better. After, for instance, you get a parent group to agree with you, and you get the student council to agree with you, and then you go in to the principal, and if they say no again, maybe it’s time for a demonstration.

Dan Fouts (11:21)

Right. So its timing and speed are the two variables in this that you have to integrate to make this work. Good. Well, this was great. We started with an essential question. You know, what is the change you want to see in the world? And then we got to some other ones later. And the claim and the counterclaim, nice tension between these. And I think what’s been revealed is, as we’ve said, timing and speed are an important consideration on whether or not this is something that people can embrace countries, um, individuals. Um, you know, a lot of different contexts where this is relevant. All right. Well, thanks everybody looking forward to our next quote, using the Teach Different method to break down the words and wisdom of philosophers, statesmen, and all different kinds of people. All right. Until next time. Thank you so much.