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“As you start to walk on the way, the way appears.” – Teach Different with Rumi – Faith

“As you start to walk on the way, the way appears.” – Teach Different with Rumi – Faith

In this episode of the Teach Different podcast, host Steve Fouts is joined by community activist Jarvis Funches, and Teach Different producer Siye Dlamini to explore the profound quote by Rumi, “As you start to walk on the way, the way appears.” By using the Teach Different Method, they unpack the claim of the quote, diving into the themes of faith, personal growth, and the importance of taking the first step in any journey. Jarvis shares his personal story of overcoming incarceration through faith, while Siye discusses her journey in podcasting and self-discovery. They emphasize the significance of patience, consistency, and the value of hard work in achieving one’s goals, ultimately highlighting that the path to success often requires navigating through challenges and maintaining faith in oneself.

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Exploring Rumi’s Wisdom

01:59 – Walking by Faith vs. Sight

05:24 – Overcoming Paralysis Through Analysis

06:51 – Learning Through Observation and Faith

08:40 – The Power of Faith in Learning

12:46 – Personal Stories of Faith and Transformation

15:36 – Faith in Professional Growth

20:34 – The Journey of Faith and Patience

26:09 – The Value of Hard Work and Perseverance

29:54 – Teach Different Outro

Image Source: This image was first published on Flickr.Original image by don del castillo. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dondel/2122344234/

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Date: 10/08/2025

Podcast Title:

Today’s Guest(s)

Jarvis Funches

Jarvis is a native Chicagoan from the city’s west side who is an artist and community activist.

Siye Dlamini

Siye Dlamini is a podcast producer.

Transcript

Steve Fouts (00:10)

Welcome to the Teach Different podcast. Hello everybody. We obviously, we got Jarvis with us today. Anyone who follows the Teach Different podcast knows that he’s a cameo, like he’s a constant guest. He’s a community activist from Chicago was part of the birth of Teach different he’s an inspiration and hopefully we’re an inspiration to him.

 

Jarvis Funches (00:15)

Yeah, yeah.

 

Steve Fouts (00:36)

We also have Siye with us and Siye is the podcast guru from Swaziland who actually works with Teach Different’s podcast production and editing. So we brought her in because she had a couple quotes that she was interested in and threw them out there and said, Hey, can we try a couple quotes I’m interested in? And of course I jumped all over that and brought Jarvis in. We’re gonna, we’re gonna do a couple quotes. Obviously we’re just gonna do one of them right now, but let’s start it up with a really, really good quote from a person named Rumi, R-U-M-I. And if you don’t know who Rumi is, this is a 13th century Persian poet. So almost a thousand years ago. A poet, Islamic scholar, and a mystic. So this was a deep, deep thinker. And for anyone who’s here for the first time, we are gonna talk about this quote. We’re gonna go over the claim, what the quote is trying to say. We’re gonna go over some counterclaims. We’re gonna disagree with the quote. This is how the Teach Different Method works. And then we’re going to come up with hopefully some really good questions and reflections and some experiences that we’re probably just going to share naturally in our lives that support what this quote is saying. And away we go, right? I’m going to read the quote multiple times and we’re going to, we’re going to start and weigh in on this. Siye, maybe we’ll, we’ll have you kick it off after I read it a couple of times. This is Rumi, a poet, scholar, and mystic almost a thousand years ago. As you start to walk on the way, the way appears. As you start to walk on the way, the way appears. Rumi. Siye your thoughts.

 

Siye Dlamini (02:52)

Yeah, I love this quote, honestly, and I think the first thing that came to mind for me with it was that you only get to find clarity once you actually start doing the work. That’s kind of how I thought about it, that you won’t know what’s to come unless you start. So it’s very important that you take that first step and then the way will clear up for you and then you’ll gain clarity and then you will know what to do as you continue.

 

Jarvis Funches (03:20)

Ooh, I like it. I like it. What’s thoughts, Mr. Fouts? So you want me to go ahead and take over?

 

Steve Fouts (03:23)

Straight to the point. You go ahead. mean, if it’s in your head, I mean, I, that was a really good kick it off. 

 

Jarvis Funches (03:33)

So, okay. like how she goes for it straight no brainers. That’s for the people that think by sight, okay? I love your quote that you picked because it helps me reminisce in such a way. I wrote down for your quote. I agree with this quote because I believe that it’s best that you walk by faith and not by sight. Because if you walk by sight, you will get lost because everything doesn’t look as it seems. But if you keep faith and you stay determined and you keep putting that one foot in front of the other, like you say, it’s going to clear up and it’s going to start to make sense. But if you walk by sight, it’ll never make sense in the beginning. So I always tell my podcast and everybody on here, we should walk by faith. Walk by that gut feeling. If you know you can do it, do it. Don’t listen to the listeners. Don’t listen to people that stand around. Don’t listen to nobody that don’t have your vision. Take that faith and push. And that’s why I love this quote because it’s very spiritual in a way to me because a lot of people work by sight. A lot of people go off of what they can see. And a lot of times the things that we see are not as what they seem to be. And that’s why I love this quote. What do you think Mr. Fouts?

 

Steve Fouts (04:56)

Yeah, faith is almost clearer than sight. Although we think when we see something, we’ve got the evidence. I love faith. I didn’t see faith in this quote until you mentioned that. And then I liked what you said as well, Siye, about starting is what’s important. Not knowing where you’re going, I think a lot of people they paralyze themselves, paralysis through analysis. They think too much and need to get everything perfectly laid out before they’re gonna take that step. But in reality, you gotta put yourself out there and have some faith. And then your way is gonna reveal. And I’m just gonna, I’m gonna criticize myself just for a moment, because when I was young my brother and I, my twin brother, Dan, who’s not here, right? He’s in Teach Different. We were trying to learn how to ride bikes. And I was not going to get on that thing until I saw someone else do it. And my brother, he’s really closer to Rumi. He would just get on stuff and he would just fall and he’s not thinking. So, he got on the bikes first and he would just fall and all this stuff. And I’m looking at him. I don’t know if I was laughing or not, probably not. ‘Cause I knew I was going to have to learn it, but I just watched him and then he learned it. And then I got on it after I watched. So I don’t think I followed this quote with that way of learning how to ride a bike. I actually did need to see before I got on.

 

Jarvis Funches (06:31)

Hehehe.

 

Steve Fouts (06:51)

So I don’t know where that goes really. I’m almost on a counterclaim so far, but it’s saying, Jarvis.

 

Siye Dlamini (06:57)

Yeah.

 

Jarvis Funches (06:58)

Nah, just hit me out, right? So, and I just, you saw how you just got lost in that little story right there? Now watch this, let me help you out, right? You see how you had to look by sight, right? At Dan, right? But look, watch how this story goes. Dan had faith that he could ride the bike. Dan had faith that even though he will fail, and he knew he was gonna fail, he had faith and he was determined to beat this. He had faith to show the bike that I am who I am. I’m better than you. I will ride you. No matter how many times I fall off you, I will overcome. And you know what you did? You think you saw by sight. You had faith in Dan. You didn’t have faith in the bike. You had faith in Dan. Cause you know why? You say, look, I’m not trusting that bike. I’m not getting on that bike. My brother fall off that bike every day. But listen, I got faith because it’s something that my brother see that I don’t see. So I got faith in Dan. I got faith in Dan’s plan that how many times we fall off this bike, one day we gonna be able to ride it. And see that’s what you did. You did visualize it and guess what happened? You visualized it and some way you got discouraged because why? You didn’t want to fall. But Dan walked by faith. Even though I am going to fall, I will not be defeated. You see that?

 

Steve Fouts (08:27)

And I, if I got you, I got you. And it’s like, you kept the claim with me. I had the faith really in him, not the bike. And I watched him. Siye, what are you thinking right now?

 

Siye Dlamini (08:40)

I’m thinking your story with the bike thing kind of goes back to like it kind of feels like a counterclaim to me in that sometimes the seeing things is better in terms of starting because if you don’t see someone achieve something for example you think it’s out of reach for you right this is why representation matters and I think, we speak a lot about representation and spaces, and it’s important to see people who are achieving great things for you to aspire to that greatness. So I think there is some power in seeing things, walking by sight, I think there is some power in that. And then also the way appearing then comes from the fact that someone already has the blueprint for you to follow. So the way is already kind of like revealed to you without having to actually go through the thing first. I don’t know if that makes sense.

 

Jarvis Funches (09:34)

No, make 100 percent. It makes 100 percent. Just like Mr. Faust was saying, you do have some type of power in sight, but like I was telling you guys earlier, sight can also be deceiving sometimes. But like you just said, sometimes you do have to see other people accomplish things. So where does your faith come in at? Just because I see that I can obtain it and that I see that someone can do it, but where is the faith that is going to keep me disciplined to do it? is the fire that’s going to click inside of me that’s going to have me saying, know what, I did see you could do it, but I know I could do it too. See, it always plays in faith. It still is going to go back to faith. You have to have faith within you as a person because we always like they say we can always walk the horse to the water but we can never make the horse drink the water why because we can show you the blueprint but you have to have faith in yourself to even execute the blueprint period we could show each other two plus two is for every day. But until one of us has faith to actually believe in that, then that’s when it comes in. Yes, we do see it, but if I see it and I’m not having that type of, it’s not clicking to me to have that adrenaline to want to compete or want to do it, then I don’t have faith. You could show me all day.

 

Steve Fouts (11:04)

And faith is always there. Some people need more before they get started. They need to see things a little bit more because I’m thinking back on my bike sample, which I hope we can come up with another example too, right? ‘Cause the bike thing is so simple the minute I saw him on the bike, riding it, that did, create a belief. It did help the faith to see. Sometimes I guess seeing can kind of push the faith a bit. And then others, they don’t even need to see. You know, this is Columbus heading to the new world, not knowing if he was going to fall off a flat earth, you know, or you know, people who do things for the first time, they’re special people. Like that, that’s where the faith is raw. It’s like a hundred percent. And then these people follow them because they’re just like, I couldn’t have done that, but man, I’m following this guy. So I’m with you. And maybe it’s a degree of faith that’s different for different people. I’m going to quote again, as you start to walk on the way, the way of… Jarvis, let me ask you this. If you think of your life, your experiences, do you have an experience or something in mind that fits this, that’s a little bit more than like riding a bike, but more like some maybe risk you took?

 

Jarvis Funches (12:46)

Yeah. And to be quite frankly, why I believe in the faith part so strongly is because I’ma just keep it raw and uncut. I was incarcerated before, you know, due to stupid activities, right? Let’s just say that. And I was incarcerated and I was facing 10 years. 10 years, right? And this is me looking by sight. I’m facing 10 years. The evidence that they’re bringing me and that they’re presenting to me, we have nothing less to give you but 10 years. And this is me walking by sight. I start to go and I just start to go and I start to think. And I was like, man, it’s over. It’s over. I gotta take the 10. I gotta go away for 10. It’s over. But then something clicked inside of my head. It’s always something my granddad always told me, we walk by faith and not by sight. And it just kept playing over in my head in the cell. We walk by faith and not by sight. We walk by faith and not by sight. So you know what I said? I circled Christmas day on my calendar and I said, I got faith that God is gonna make me be home before Christmas. Right? Mind you, I’m facing 10 years. I circled December 25th, 2023. I say, I’m going to be home. In spite of, I’m going be home. And guess what happened? In spite of, I came home November 23rd, a whole month before I even circled on my calendar. Because guess what? I didn’t lose the faith that I had in the higher power just because I saw you giving me 10. That didn’t mean that I was going to believe that I was going to get that. No, because I got something different on it. You see what I’m saying? And that’s why I walk by faith so much because I’d have been in circumstances that can no man get me out of. No man at all. But my faith did. And that’s something that I would never let go of. Because in a time when I don’t even feel the strength in my own self or anybody else around me, I got faith that in one way or another, it’s gonna play out for the best of me. And I came home. Time’s considered served and everything. Didn’t even have to go back and do time for the crime. So just to see that happen was a complete blessing for you to be facing 10 years and to come home within the same year of you getting that 10 years is a blessing. Who gets that?

 

Steve Fouts (15:32)

That’s a powerful thing. I don’t know what the term is, Siye, what would you, I wanna bring you in here with this faith word, cause this is taking over the conversation. I think it’s a big word and it does fit perfectly. What is your sense of, I don’t know, the things that you’ve accomplished in your life so far or the risks that you’ve taken, maybe the regrets, maybe the ones where you’re so happy, you put yourself out there, even though you weren’t sure of something. Is there anything coming to mind for you that fits this as you start to walk on the way, the way appears?

 

Siye Dlamini (16:25)

I think just going to speak about even podcasting because it’s not something that I went to school specifically and studied, right? In college, like my degree did not have anything to do with editing podcasts and videos and things like that. But because I started a podcast in 2019 with a bunch of my friends and basically taught myself how to edit and

 

do podcasts, then the way appeared into like, you know, getting clients and actually doing this as my full-time job to a place where it’s basically, I’m operating it as kind of like a business now, right? And it’s very weird to even explain to people from where I’m from, because it’s not such a popular thing to be doing. So I had to use a whole lot of faith in myself that, I’m creative and I can learn this thing and I enjoy it. And I kind of just, I didn’t have anyone else to kind of bounce off ideas off of. And also just that kind of like speak about how to do this professionally, right? I had a goal last year that I was gonna have 10 clients, right? And that was me walking in faith, not by sight, because I didn’t understand where that was going to come from, how I was going to get those clients, what I needed to do. I had to uncover a lot of things, but I did it. And it wasn’t a thing where I would say I knew what it would look like at the end of that and of that goal specifically. So I think just my professional career overall has just been a very like faith-based one and just using the tools that I have at my disposal even when people don’t understand it. Because typically people go the traditional route that you get a job. And then I’m here like, I’m just doing this solo crazy thing where I work on podcasts. And I also didn’t know that it was gonna land me where I am today.

 

Steve Fouts (18:37)

And the way is appearing.

 

Jarvis Funches (18:37)

You see Mr. Fouts? You see Mr. Fouts? The faith. You see, it’s not popular from where she from. Ain’t nobody see that. Ain’t nobody see that vision. Ain’t nobody see her vision. But she did. And guess what? She had faith in it. She just had, a couple years back, she said she ain’t even, ain’t nobody even know nothing about it. But she had faith. And guess what? Boy, boy, boy, it’s powerful, because that’s why I’m so connected. I just want to tell you, congratulations, and keep going, because I got so much faith and a higher power, man. The more you dream and the more you come, so creativity, you put it out there, it don’t matter what nobody think, God got you, man. That’s all I really, I want to tell it, because by faith, you gotta keep going, you got to. Whether you see it looking good or not, you gotta keep going.

 

Steve Fouts (19:24)

Beautiful.

 

Jarvis Funches (19:34)

You got to, you got to. I love that, I love that.

 

Steve Fouts (19:37)

Yeah, it’s beautiful. I was just adding that it’s really cool that once you have that faith, you step out, you might not see your way yet, but your way does start appearing a little. Then you can set goals. Siye, like I want 10 clients. You didn’t start off in 2019, I’m guessing. Saying, I’m going to get 10 clients. You started off like playing around with podcast software and realizing, wait a minute, this is fun. I’m going to set some time out and keep doing this. And then when the way becomes more something you can see, you actually can set goals that you can measure yourself by. And it becomes just manifest.

 

Siye Dlamini (20:34)

Yeah, so how soon after you start should you expect the way to appear?

 

Jarvis Funches (20:43)

That’s a really good question. That’s a really good question. I really can’t even believe it.

 

Steve Fouts (20:47)

If I would have spent, I’m sorry. If I would have spent six months trying to ride that bike, I think I would have learned much quicker. I don’t know if I would have stuck with it. It’s a good question. Could you repeat that? And then Jarvis, you, you, you think about a way to get at this question again, repeat that.

 

Jarvis Funches (21:01)

Sure.

 

Siye Dlamini (21:08)

How soon after you start should you expect the way to appear?

 

Jarvis Funches (21:13)

Just from personal experience, once you start on the journey and you got faith in it, you believe in it, I start to, to myself, I really start to tell myself, it’s not the destination that we’re trying to get to, which I always say, let me say for my people that it’s not so spiritual, okay, if I started on something legit like a business or whatever the case is, and I want it to just flourish in the beginning. It’s not gonna do that. So let’s all just be legit. It’s not gonna do that. It’s gonna take time to build. Just like basketball, repetitions makes it better, right? So the more we do it, the better we get at it, right? So I just feel like people that’s starting on businesses and anything in life that you’re doing and get a lot of good reps at it, just like working out, before you start to truly expect something from it because now at that point, as you’re doing it with reps or if you’re doing it constantly, like how you doing the podcast, you did it constantly, constantly, you didn’t give up on it. You grew a sense of an urge to not only learn it, but to develop it at the same time. And as you was learning it and developing it, you were starting to see progress as well. Like you see what I’m saying? So it’s not a pacific. Just be patient. That’s how I can answer the question. Just be patient and keep faith, stay consistent. Like truly. Yeah, just stay consistent.

 

Steve Fouts (22:37)

Yeah, consistent. like that. I like that a lot. It’s a good question. It really is. ‘Cause I’m actually thinking of the things that I have done or tried in my life where maybe I was going on faith a little bit. I wasn’t seeing the success and I never ended up continuing it because I realized that it wasn’t for me. I didn’t see success enough to say to myself, you know, stick with this, Steve. I guess, let me give an example. Basketball. I love, that was my favorite sport. And I got cut from the, was it eighth grade? Eighth, I made the freshman team in high school, but then I got cut in the eighth grade team. But that one was awful. I was just like, okay, what’s this saying here? And again, I’m not, I ended up being a teacher and I’m only six feet. Okay. So it’s probably better that I didn’t stick with that one. So I go back and forth how soon Siye I’m back to Jarvis. This idea of just be consistent, see your little wins. What are you thinking? Siye I, can tell your mind is at work.

 

Siye Dlamini (24:09)

Yeah, no, I’m not thinking anything specifically, but I do think that sometimes we do quit things very quickly as people in general, like if it gets hard, because when you start something, kind of think, you romanticize the journey, right? You think, I’m gonna do this thing. And then you start dreaming and everything is going to fall into place. Like I’m going to start this business and it’s going to come together and I’m going to get the clients and I’m going to make millions, right? Because you start dreaming big, but then forget about the hurdles that you’re going to encounter along the way. Then it kind of seems like the way is not appearing.

 

Jarvis Funches (24:46)

Right.

 

Siye Dlamini (24:59)

And it’s just dark, you’re in the wilderness and nothing is going the way that you expected it to. So you give up on it and you’re like, well, maybe the way will never appear in this one. So let me just quit this business thing and go find a job. Like everybody else. So I do think that like sometimes that’s an easier thing to do. Maybe not even in business, maybe you’re working out and you’re trying to lose weight and the weight is not falling off. And you’re like, okay, I’ve been eating clean. I’ve been going to the gym all month, but then I gained like five pounds. So where’s the problem? Then you just quit, right? Because there’s nothing motivating you to keep going because it seems like the weight is not appearing.

 

Jarvis Funches (25:35)

Sure.

 

Steve Fouts (25:45)

It’s never going to appear. Yeah. You know, like give it up. But you know, it does, but if you look at the quote, as you start on the way, the way appears, it’s, actually, there is some sight that you need at some point, even with this quote, and I’m going with the faith, of course Jarvis, but if you don’t ever have anything, that you’re seeing from it. It is hard, right? I mean, for anybody, even if it’s just a little something like someone compliments you, say, hey, have you been working out? You could even need one of those a month and that’s enough. You don’t have to be in your, you know. So anyway, I’m just making it.

 

Jarvis Funches (26:25)

Yes. So my question to a lot of people is… What are you willing to put your time into? Because I was just thinking the whole time, what is something that I ever did that I had instant gratification or that I got an instant reward from? And I was just thinking pretty much nothing. I’m not gonna lie to none of the listeners. Everything that you truly want and that’s authentic, you have to go through some type of hurdles. Or you have to go through some type of discouraging moments because like, I just feel like it wouldn’t mean anything to you if you got the instant gratification. Like, for instance, if I wanted to be a landlord, Or a one-time bidder zone, like we keep saying, and I just hit it right off back. Which it is some people out there like that, but I just hit it right off back. Where’s the interesting part about it? Okay, now it’s going to become something to me that I think of like, well, yeah, I got it, well, yeah. But it’s like when you have to work for something and you have to crave and dig and scratch and cry. And when you get it, it just feels so much better. Like you say, we go to the gym and you got a big belly. Now you got an eight pack. You seem to treat that eight pack a little bit better now because it took you so much to get it. You know, it took you so much to get it. So you kind of be more like, no McDonald’s today. No cookies today, you know, cause I want to watch it, you know. But if we just went to the gym one day and instantly became out of bodybuilder, I don’t think a lot of people would take care of their bodies because it’ll be like, hey, I’ll just do it one time and I’m back, you know? So my question is like,

 

Steve Fouts (28:20)

So maybe, maybe part of what’s revealed, if I can go with that, maybe part of what’s revealed, like the way appearing is the realization that, you know, mind over matter. It was my hard work. was my determination. That is what I see now that has the value as much value as anything I was trying to accomplish. It’s like, won me. I did this.

 

Jarvis Funches (28:24)

Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

 

Steve Fouts (28:49)

And if it were easy at the beginning, you don’t have that feeling. You just have maybe a perfect body or something, but you don’t have that internal feeling. Just throwing that out. I like what you said, Jarvis there.

 

Jarvis Funches (28:53)

Yeah? I like that. Sure, I like that. I like how you just cleaned that up. I like that nice cleanup on it. I like that.

 

Steve Fouts (29:09)

Well, hey, we clean it up with another episode of the Teach Different podcast. This was great. And we’re, I just, love the quote. thought we got into some really good things. Faith was a big word that kind of came out and Jarvis, you brought it. And I didn’t see it originally, but that’s what’s great about conversations. You read a quote and then all of a sudden the conversation takes on a life of its own. You pick a theme out of the quote and you go to both sides, you ask some questions and we leave here with another hopefully great experience that people can benefit from. So thank you, Siye. Thank you, Jarvis. And we will see everybody again on the Teach Different podcast soon.

 

Jarvis Funches (29:49)

All right!

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